To not be surprised a 35 year old with a history of eating disorder would struggle to get pregnant (lily Collins)

For me they are exactly the same. And I’m not a lone lunatic. The EU is set to ban surrogacy on the basis it constitutes human trafficking, many countries, including Italy, have already done so. There is mounting evidence about the harm it causes the infant from birth through the life course. There are global campaigns to stop surrogacy on the basis of the harm it causes. So perhaps you need to know more about the issue before you dismiss those of us involved in campaigning for its end.

But in what way are they not the same? Because the baby doesn’t exist before being bought? That’s even worse, it’s ordering a baby.

Oh, come on. Those two issues aren't the same and you know it. You can be against surrogacy without making ridiculous comparisons like that.

So if you heard that a celebrity had trafficked a child to do domestic work in their home would you consider that a 'private matter'? Surrogacy is a human trafficking issues. This is babies and women's bodies being bought for sale, it's absolutely the concern of anyone who is interested in an ethical society to speak out against surrogacy.

Absolutely nobody else's business. It's between her and the surrogate. People commenting on her instagram just come across as losers. Why on earth do people care what celebrities do outside of their work, anyway? They aren't politicians.

Exactly. Although it's actually far far worse when it's a baby. The kidney isn't going to grow up to know what you did....

Would someone who bought a kidney from someone come out and say “don’t judge until you’ve walked in my shoes, you can’t possibly imagine the pain of kidney failure and impending death, I have TRIED dialysis but this was my only chance to survive”, to crowds of people saying “yeah! Don’t be so judgemental! That woman WANTED to donate her kidney because she is so kind, they just paid her expenses”.

if that sounds ridiculous, why is it not ridiculous when it’s a baby instead of a kidney?

Errr, not by people who are anti-surrogacy they’re not! I am anti-surrogacy and anti-sex industry. Commodification of women, and in the case of surrogacy, of babies too.

Neither of those things necessarily make you infertile. But even if they did, it doesn't mean you can't conceive just buy a baby. As sad as it is, some people just can't have biological kids.

@Deebee90

what are the issues she mentions in the book?

@KimberleyClark this is what I don't understand from the posters who are saying you can't disagree with surrogacy if you agree with adoption. I don't understand why they can't see the distinction. Outside surrogacy a child is really only taken at birth from birth mother where there are extreme safeguarding concerns in this country (it's not like adoption was portrayed in shows like Friends where Monica and Chandler are there for the birth and then take the babies). The child is removed for their safety not to satisfy the needs of a childless couple wanting to become parents. The needs of the child is primary consideration, then birth mother.

With surrogacy the only need considered is the childless person/couple (which is how adoption used to be in say the 60s and is now rightly condemned)

A friend of mine is a social worker working in adoption and he would agree with you that a baby taken from its birth mother suffers trauma, it’s just less traumatic than being left with incapable/dangerous parents, so it’s the lesser of two evils. But to deliberately engineer a situation where a baby will have that trauma, to satisfy the wants of an adult, just seems wrong to me.

This. We can’t always have what we want. Sometimes the price for having what we want is too high.

It's not the woman being exploited that so wrong about surrogacy IMO- most of the time she is an adult with a choice- it's the fact that a newborn is being taken away from it's birth mother.Research shows that babies bond with their mother during pregnancy, so unless there are safeguarding reasons I just don't think it's right.
Also I find it incomprehendable how someone can give their own baby away 😢

Absolutely agree with all your posts @BatchCookBabe 👏 👏

The meanest comment I have read so far I think. Also, it is not obvious what with us not being Lily or her doctor.

We don’t have robust evidence either way about humans (largely because it would be unethical conduct robust research, and for obvious reasons parents of surrogates would be difficult to study as likely to conceal issues due to not wanting to be perceived negatively) other social mammals such as cats and dogs we do have robust evidence that it is extremely likely to damage the meant if separated from a mother and siblings before a certain developmental stage. We can assume this would be much later in human children due to the slower development of humans from infancy to independence. We do have evidence of risk of damage across psychological and physical health from adopted children, although for obvious reasons these can’t necessarily be assumed to apply to surrogate children.

Not have a baby.

so firstly i wasnt disagreeing with you. And secondly that is exactly what happened in my sisters case. She was there everythibg single day and talked to them but no wasnt allowed to touch them.
i suggest you just do not absolutely not talk about a situation you dont know anything about.

i was illustrating the fact that there are some circumstances in which it isnt disimilar than surrogacy when the child is given to his mum who isnt the one who birthed him.

but your tone is horrible.

Plenty of women with eating disorders are fertile. I know it’s a risk factor for infertility though. I can’t help but wonder if she used a surrogate because of body image issues..who knows I suppose

It is illegal in many countries - at least commercial surrogacy is. Though yes not in the US which is where I assume Lily Collins’ surrogate is.
In poorer countries I guess it’s very hard to prevent exploitation - even in the Ukraine most surrogates admit they’re doing it for the money - to buy a house, do a college course - something they couldn’t earn enough for any other way. It is always poorer women providing a service for richer women & I think that’s what drives the strong feelings about it - more than the taking the baby away at birth. As a previous poster said newborn babies have often historically had to be looked after by another woman in cases of maternal death at childbirth etc. so we have a precedent for that.
And people seem to have less of an issue with altruistic surrogacy when it’s a friend, family member etc but even that could be open to exploitation I guess.

Interestingly Lily Collin’s husband commented on her Instagram page about the negative comments re surrogacy saying that people don’t always know the reason someone uses a surrogate and asking people to be kind in their comments. But I think people completely understand why someone might want to use a surrogate (for any number of valid medical reasons anyway) - ok there are a few people saying that Lily just didn’t want to get fat but I think most people know about her history of EDs and that it’s probably far more complicated a picture than that. I guess what he maybe doesn’t understand is how many people outside the US are opposed to surrogacy in principle - no matter what the reason for it.

Does anyone have any actual evidence about the alleged traumatic effects on a baby of separation from the woman that carried it.

I personally don't think it has a huge impact on a newborn, however I think when the newborn is a young adult/teenager they'll wonder who gave birth to them.

The evidence is clear from babies of sperm donors throughout the 80's in Australia, once the laws changed in 2017, naming donors.
10,000s went on to meet their biological father, they wanted to know their background etc.

If these children go visit their birth mother, example in Ukraine and she explains how she had to stay in crowded accommodation for the last ten weeks, in bad conditions with many other women in the same position.

Waiting to give birth, how no one actually cared for her wellbeing.

Birth injuries were dismissed.

Maybe they won't want to trace the journey, it is a risk.

Then you haven’t read it properly

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw her baby was via surrogate. She has struggled most of her life with an ed and that may have impacted her chance of having children naturally.

I also want to give my view as someone who has had an eating disorder, the idea of getting pregnant and becoming ‘fat’ despite it being a baby used to make me physically throw up, everytime I’d miss my period id have full on panic attacks imagining the scenario of me and the possibly scenario of ‘fat’ me. So I suspect this could also be a situation for her where she didn’t want that to happen to her!

I feel for her, because mh issues are often a lifelong battle and instead of people shaming her I hope she has love surrounding her to aid and support her through life