Is anyone else's full wage just going on living expenses?!

Yeah

Exactly.

I see threads every week from people wondering if they can afford children, and 99% of the replies are from people saying "go for it, you'll find a way"

@IVFmumoftwo sometimes that is the case but most of the time it's people being feckless and thinking 'love is enough', you see it on here alllll the time 'oh you'll make it work somehow' and sometimes the somehow is a shit life relying on foodbanks

We need more doctors and nurses - now - and we need to retain up more of our own. Plus benefit of more NHS staff in needed roles is also waiting list come down and thus more of population are in a position to actually work more.

We do need to fill skill gaps and also plan better and train up existing people to fill them and to stop losing ones we have trained.

We also have a decreasing native population - fewer workers to tax while at same time having more dependents - old and too young to work - and needing more tax. Now increasing children numbers won't help as they will be dependent for decades and a cost to state. Way round this is to import adult ready to tax workers (and get more of population working for longer hence ever increasing retirement ages)- so we get a slump not a cliff with aging population.

We also need young workers to come in for short periods of time and pick some farm crops work in low paid professions not have some fantasy about getting likely older sicker workers to do it who are likely in the wrong part of the UK and can't afford to so it at wages offered.

I don't think we need immigration at levels likely in next decade and do think we should have better careers advice than exists to better match jobs and people - but I think it's fantasy to say we can do without any immigration.

Though agree adding more to existing population isn't going to be great and I think there will be increasing push back to it politically but it's what ONS is predicting and in past they usually under predict immigration levels.

@trivialMorning we don't need more workers we need the population of the uk to work.

Too many not working. What happens if we import labour and then they decide they don't want to work?we cannot keep adding to the population like this, especially importing low/unskilled workers, we need to make sure we are maximising our current working age population,

I can't afford to live in part of midlands I was raised - 3 bed terrace house are going for £350,000 - my siblings are lucky to be in HA housing. Housing better price near DH family but there's no work. We've got on our bikes and moved for work - serval times.

We've had to marry up work and where we could afford to buy/live up. Yes there are consequences no family support and elder care much harder. We are living this and have been for last 20 years - it's not new.

The Telegraphy doing articles about how high house prices are impacting birth rates. House prices have been a concern for 20 plus years - we not been building enough for decades - it why Labour was about house building in last election. ONS census figures show family sizes have been decreasing and social attitude to more than 2 kids hardening - 3 is now considered a large family in stats.

Many think as baby boomer die off house prices will get cheaper and wages go up due to worker shortages - but while deaths will be out stripping British births for next decade our population will likely grow by 8% due to immigration - it's why that a political issue - public realise we need more workers to fill job and pay tax but at same time that adds to housing pressure and wage stagnation.

I think everyone saying none of this is remotely new - though steadily getting worse and worse - it's why there talk of inheritance becoming the biggest social divide between haves and nots. It's not just a UK issue either it an issue in Australia, USA and some European countries.

Ha, I love that. My dad has speakers he brought over from Australia with him when they emigrated nearly 50 years ago! Still going strong.

I know - IMO it's just more aspirational nonsense - but then I went to private school and don't feel like it benefited me at all 🤣

@biscuitsandbooks just look at the VAT and school fees, I'm surprised the extent to which that seemed to break some families and makes me think most couldn't afford it in the first place.

My parents sofa is older than me - alt least 45 years old! Been recovered once

What if you could afford and then you couldn't due to circumstances?

I'm not convinced that's as common as MN makes it out to be. I also think a lot of people don't think about the "what ifs" or the potential changes in circumstances.

You see it on here all the time, people sending their 4yo's to private schools but not thinking that that same school is going to cost 4x more by the time that child is 16, for example.

That's not to say you should always plan for the worst case scenario, more that people do need to think long-term when it comes to children and finances.

I've always worked in low paid roles - I'm 36 and have never earned more than a 25k salary my entire adult life. I know exactly how tough it can be on minimum wage.

Being able to buy a house that's big enough for three children in one of the world's most expensive cities was only an option for a very short period of time in the recent past - prior to that it was just slums and tenement housing.

The argument about low paid workers needing housing is valid, but it's not as though there's always been free access to good quality, affordable homes in London until recently.

I think too many people don't plan ahead financially and don't think long-term when they decide to have lots of children or not to buy a property.

You see it on here with average earners when looking where to move to . Must/need a 4 bed detached etc - and ideally of Instagram standard when they only have 1 child etc or sometimes none - now I understand that people are trying to avoid creeping up the ladder and planning for the future but it really isn't a 'need' - it's a 'want' - and then wonder why they can't manage as hadn't factored in any commutes etc /changing job circumstances.

@maria2bela1 I'd bite the bullet and move further out. DH could commute. You could save for a deposit then.

What if you could afford and then you couldn't due to circumstances?

I would have sympathy with someone with 2 kids in this situation, but not 3+, 3+ is when it gets really challenging if financial situations change, death, divorce etc. One of the reasons I stuck at 2 was because if circumstances changed, 2 was a reasonable and more manageable number. Anyone having 3+ kids is essentially gambling and making themselves (and their pre existing children) more vulnerable if circumstances change.

What if you could afford and then you couldn't due to circumstances?

Our heating comes on when the temperature goes below a certain point. If we didn't have it on our house would be even damper.

No one is shouting
As adults we are responsible for the choices we make and the children we bring into the world.
It's called responsibility.
All these threads about the CoL and ""someone" has to make it stop 😂
Like there is a magic button to press not that it's the result of Brexit and multiple factors like climate affecting food production and the world financial markets finally catching up post Quantative Easing in 2008/9.

I don't think we have seen anything yet -Trump et all
Hard hats on!

Try living on one salary, which is half of your partners, and then see what real life is for a lot of people.

I don't think anyone, rich or poor, has the 'right' to have 2/3 children. People shouldn't be having children that they can't afford, and if they do then they shouldn't be whining about it and expecting some magical state purse to fund it

Do people not realise many people been raised in places and have family support there so not so easy to just up and leave to buy in a place they have no support. Issue is lack of affordable housing and rising costs which wages do not catch up with.

Those shouting about people being reckless about wanting to raise a family on an ordinary wage just don’t seem to understand if you want to be able to go to a shop or have your loved ones being taken care of by a paid carer those roles need to be filled and wages are low but why shouldn’t those workers have the same right to have a family? or only the rich be able to have 2/3 children? and only the rich live in london? who would then work in shops or provide care there?

Anyone curious about why things don't last long these days watch Shop Now! The Conspiracy Theory on Netflix, it's all about how this is designed to make us buy more. Things are often now glued together rather than fixable, manufacturers no longer provide guidance on how to fix etc, they want us to just buy a new one.

Use may be a factor if comparing to the 50s, 60s and 70s, but i dont think in my adult life my useage has varied.

My dh is a manufacturer and he often critiques newer things compared the same product and manufacturer but from 10, 15, 30 years ago. eg we had a hoover when we married and trird to buy the same model 12 or so years later. The build quality had plummeted and instead of lasting the 12 or 15 year the previous one did it lasted about 3 or 4 years.

There was the whole era of planned obsolescence as well. At least legislation has meant spares have to be supplied now.

We stopped at 2 kids even outside of the SE, no way we could comfortably afford a 3rd child even in a more affordable area, and we have a good, above average, household income. 3 children are an expensive luxury in my view, even before you consider location.

I suspect in previous generations things weren't used as often or as much?

So true!

But kids can be more expensive, I didn’t go to clubs or school trips, uniforms were cheap or council funded. Nights out on £5.

My kids went to brownies, we went swimming with them instead of lessons, there’s an annual sports club here that’s £1 week for 12 weeks of the year. Library is free. They didn’t get add hoc gifts like so many kids, they waiting for their birthdays.