Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

I think those of us who work in universities, and understand the multiplicity of things that universities do, and the array of support services needed (as I say upthread, think of what's needed to support a town of 20,000 to 30,000 residents), overestimate the general public's knowledge of how universities work, and what their purpose is. This thread shows brilliantly the very limited understanding of the public about universities.

Oh absolutely.
I was doing a lot of student finance talks when the £9k fees were introduced.
I was on the receiving end of a lot of anger from teachers and parents.
I tried to explain that the reality was that universities weren't getting any more money (it was less in many cases) it was the funding model that has changed and that the government had shifted the cost of HE to the individual students.

The perception of paying £9k also meant that students expected more which meant universities had to invest more money into the student experience, which of course costs money!

@LittleBigHead true, and yet it shouldn't be that difficult. I'm not a medical professional, and yet I know that if I go to hospital, the cost of treating me is not just calculated based on the doctor's hourly rate.

What are you basing this opinion on?

I think those of us who work in universities, and understand the multiplicity of things that universities do, and the array of support services needed (as I say upthread, think of what's needed to support a town of 20,000 to 30,000 residents), overestimate the general public's knowledge of how universities work, and what their purpose is. This thread shows brilliantly the very limited understanding of the public about universities.

Money. Take St. Andrew’s as an example - incredibly competitive to get into if you are from the UK, comparable to Oxbridge. If you’re a wealthy American however then you’re practically guaranteed to be accepted.

I was earning more than £20 p.h. on a teaching contract in the 1990's.

Exactly!
Even if the £3600 on teaching wasn't a massive underestimate you also need to include the professional services support without which teaching couldn't take place in the first place!!

Regardless of the hourly rate for teaching staff, it's still a bit like saying it only costs £0.42 to buy the ingredients for one cupcake so why am I paying £2.50 for one.

That’s still only around £48 per hour to include several other hours in preparation, marking, and administration related to teaching and marking. For 3 students I’d estimate at least another 2-3 hours + 1 hour supervision. So that’s £18-12 an hour basically.

The NMW is what - £11 per hour to go up to just over £12 ph in April.

Oops sorry, very careless reading on my part!

Money.

£18.30 times 3, not £18. As the document to which I linked states.

UK undergraduate students pay around £9k a year to attend university. Universities spend a lot on recruiting overseas students. Some courses, especially sciences, need a minimum number of students to run. Sometimes that number is only reached with the inclusion of a number of overseas students.
From Chat GPT…
The tuition fees for international students at UK universities vary widely based on the university, the course of study, and whether the student is from the EU or outside the EU. Here’s a general breakdown:

Undergraduate Tuition Fees (per year)

•	Arts, Humanities, and Social Sciences: £10,000 – £20,000
•	Science and Engineering: £12,000 – £30,000
•	Medicine and Dentistry: £30,000 – £60,000 (or more)

Postgraduate Tuition Fees (per year)

•	Taught Master’s Degrees: £11,000 – £32,000
•	MBA Programs: £20,000 – £60,000
•	PhD Programs: £15,000 – £30,000 (often lower, as some are funded or offer stipends)

Additional Costs

•	Living Expenses: Typically £12,000 – £18,000 per year, depending on the city (London is more expensive).
•	College Fees (for some universities, like Oxford and Cambridge): £8,000 – £10,000 per year.

Variations by University

•	Top Universities (Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, LSE, UCL, etc.) charge higher fees.
•	Scottish Universities may have different fee structures, with EU students previously benefiting from lower fees (now changed post-Brexit).

I pay part time hourly paid staff £18 p/h but they generally don't have the additional responsibilities that a contracted academic will have.
If they are taking on the role of a lecturer or senior lecturer then they are paid at an enhanced rate which could be double or even triple.

My commercial hourly rate is £87 p/h which is what the university charges for my time if I'm delivering externally.

Incredible that anyone would believe a professor would provide an hour's teaching for £18! (to include all the associated preparation, marking etc too)

@LondonLawyer As people have mentioned, the salary scale you are quoting is not for a lecturer, senior lecturer or professor. Those salary scales are much higher.
Not to mention you only appear to be counting face to face teaching. You've not taken into account preparation, feedback and assessment, 1:1 tutorials......all take up time!

And then there is all the other stuff that does into supporting the student through the university experience.

And broader core costs https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/finances/expenditure

Plus https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/staff/salaries

https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/28-01-2025/sb270-higher-education-staff-statistics

from just a couple of days ago. Simple to find.

Yes that’s what I assumed it is @ErrolTheDragon Hourly-paid tutors/lecturers are typically PhD students and are doing a few hours a week. The rates they’re paid don’t include research time or time for all the admin that goes with teaching.

Salaried academics get paid a lot more because we do a lot more and not all of it is face to face teaching.

I got the figures from the link below. It gives the hourly cost per hour's teaching as £18.34

I’m retired(ish) now but the cost of my teaching time was costed at roughly three times that. That didn’t take into account any overheads, which can be absolutely huge in STEM.

Incidentally, I would be teaching the same group of students for more than five hours a week just on one module. They were taught several modules in a week.

That table seems to be specifically payment for supos. Not for the actual salaries of lecturers, readers, professors ... and across the HE sector there are far more professors than there were in the past.

His four hours of teaching is the tutorials - it is two groups of three students, two hours for each subject. The multiplier is, I understand, to cover this (I could be wrong). The four hours of lectures are for 100-150 students, so even if the lecturer is being paid £500 an hour (including prep time) that's not a significant extra per-student cost, so included in the "double it for luck" £3,600 or so above.

However, I could be wrong, and I realise that a Cambridge set of figures isn't universal, it was just one I found. My premise was, however, that university funding / spending is a lot more complicated than just teaching costs, and I think we agree on that?

Cambridge is not representative of the whole HE sector.
The rate of pay for a lecturer and senior lecturer is higher than the numbers you've quoted. A reader or professor will much higher too.

You also only seem to be counting 4 hours of teaching when you say there were also 4 hours of lectures. This is on the low side for a first year UG student.

You've also not factored in preparation, individual tutorials or feedback and assessment. These are all part of teaching.

I’d say the more pressing issue is describing your son as a failure for not getting a place at Cambridge.