Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

American universities won’t be as dependent on foreign students as they can charge homegrown students whatever they want. I am sure there are schools that will take literally anyone willing to pay, but the desirable US universities (not just Ivy League) will commonly limit the number of international students accepted for undergraduate programmes to ~10%. At an undergraduate level students would definitely need to demonstrate a high standard of English to be considered a candidate at top or even mid tier universities. I suspect the expectations are a bit looser at grad level, where a particularly strong maths or science candidate might get in with weaker toefl scores. Many schools offer esl support, but what I saw from a state school where a relative taught ESL this was more refining a reasonable standard of English than dealing with students unable to cope in class.

I suppose word gets around that it’s not necessary to speak English at UK universities and the university will pay for interpreters. This must be a plus for applicants from countries where English isn’t taught to a high standard.
Is it the same in American universities?

My DC are at university (one arts one science) and say the same, the course is 80% Chinese and Indian (male) students and very few British students. It has hampered their ability to mix and make friends as well as form study/performance groups. My DC are really struggling to enjoy their courses and, while applying were looking at post graduate pathways, can't wait to leave and enter the workforce.

One of my relatives is going straight to PhD next year after a 3 year undergraduate science degree. She did do a prolonged internship between 2nd and 3rd year in a research lab.

Sure, research scientists required PhD. But lots of careers (bankers, politicians etc) don't require further full time academic study and other lucrative careers (law, audit) require professional training rather than Masters degrees.

You can't go for PhD without masters here and masters is 5-6 years depending on the subject.

Afaik U.K. students now mostly have to have a masters before starting a PhD.
I finished writing up and did my viva after starting work at 25. DH managed to totally complete his within the three years of funding. May help explain why we had such good scientific research companies back then!

Wow. Central Europe: 3 years bachelor + 2years masters + 4 years Phd.

You can't go for PhD without masters here and masters is 5-6 years (altogether) depending on the subject.

In the UK there is a long tradition of entering the labour market after a 3-year undergraduate degree. People can attain the highest summits of prestigious careers with only a 3 year degree to their name.

True, or 3yrs BSc plus 3 years PhD for research scientists... I don't think very many did masters and there weren't that many PhD students back in the day, you wouldn't do one without research council grant and/or industrial sponsorship.

Dd doing her MA found the same. It was a Russell Group uni.

In the UK there is a long tradition of entering the labour market after a 3-year undergraduate degree. People can attain the highest summits of prestigious careers with only a 3 year degree to their name. In the US labour market entry typically takes place after a 4 year undergraduate degree. In both the UK and the US, costs of education are by and large borne by families, whether through savings, income or debt.

In much of Europe, labour market entry for prestigious careers only takes places after 3 years of undergraduate plus 2 years of Master. The costs are usually borne by the public purse. European students can sometimes do a Masters at a UK university, return to their home country and directly enter the second year of a Masters degree in their home country and hey ho they end up with 2 Masters degrees from 2 countries and they are only really out of pocket for the UK Masters.

I don't know where the Uk postgraduate students are? Are there less of them? Are they distributed over more courses?

Do you mean masters or PhD students?
The total numbers of both of these is far higher than it was in the past so maybe they're still there but among a lot of international students? Plus, as mentioned, a lot more doing integrated undergrad masters which are much more affordable for U.K. students.

They need the money yes and they are subsidising yes. But the upshot - in the two non RG arts based departments I've seen - are one or two Uk students in classes which are nearly entirely Chinese! This is not saying they're not good students (some are some aren't) but they're not learning here and then feeding back into the uk creative economy, it's more like their gap year, or finishing school, a grand tour before returning home. A chance to get some skills and perfect English.
I don't know where the Uk postgraduate students are? Are there less of them? Are they distributed over more courses? I asked a friend who is an admissions tutor on one of these courses who said that uk students aren't applying,I'm not sure if it's course specific? or maybe uk postgraduate courses were ever thus.

No the university pays

For oxbridge in particular it isn’t just grades that matter - good grades are baseline requirements for consideration, and honestly grades tell you a fraction of what you need to know about a student’s aptitude, potential and motivation.

other educational systems are less grade centric - it would be crazy in many countries to be admitted to higher education based on exams alone, so international students may find that aspect easier. I think UK oxbridge candidates do benefit from a bit of coaching around how to best present their experience and interest, and many schools with higher proportion of Oxbridge candidates (state and private) will offer that for applicants.

Money for the uni - they are a business
For the student - if you are going to shell out a fortune on a UK degree, you'd want it to be a prestigious university - not somewhere that no one had heard of.

It’s money. Your ex must must amazingly thick if he can’t work this out.

@CuriousQuestioningGal yes i get that - I think my friend felt that there was too much emphasis on the support side - those were the areas she felt seemed to have more emphasis but actually if im being honest she was bored and felt it was a bit of a non job - and yet she noted that all the academic staff seemed totally put on and were covering huge amounts - including stuff she felt was more should have been the responsibility of support services- i think part of the issue is if i today was paying £40k or so and it was debt for years and years plus the loans for just getting by ( and I know its choice) i would feel pretty short changed at many places- my son actually gave up in 2021 -- 16 months into a RG uni aged 22 due to covid regulations which was preceded by the lecturers strike as he felt the offering was pathetic during that time and to be honest I couldn't blame him- luckily he had already 5 years of a career behind him that he went straight back into but obviously is now facingpaying off £28k of student debt - he feels incredibly annoyed that his generation had what he felt was a totally sub standard offering and acquired debt!!

More and more UK privately educated children are applying for university overseas and the US is very popular. A lot of children at the most expensive UK private schools have parents with very deep pockets and an education and cultural hinterland that makes them great candidates for US universities that like applicants that have done a lot.

A mix of both.
Seems like (some) postgrad masters degrees are more the 'cash cows' populated mainly by international students. Many of the better U.K. STEM students will do an integrated undergrad masters - it's the normal path for many/most at oxbridge, and obviously makes most sense loan-wise.

I apologise for my peevish response. I have a kneejerk reaction to generalisations.

It is unlikely that ALL English undergraduates are immature and relatively ignorant. Those at the top of the bell curve will already be independent learners who read widely and deeply. The problem maybe lies in the bulge where students who are used to being led through the A level syllabus and just do what they’re told can feel a bit adrift when they start university. I’m sure most of them catch up though. It’s just bad luck if you have run into a bunch of them at the wrong time.

I’m no great fan of the current school system here, particularly in the humanities. The curriculum is too full for teachers to do all the interesting and nice-to-know educating they would really like to do. But students who really want to will always find a way.

You might want to enquire about advocacy organisations should something similar come up again. An advocate could raise the issue on her behalf.

And look at her granting you a power of attorney.

No problem.

Life is a struggle as it is for ASD people, without the enormous stress of making complaints.

I was just making a point that UK unis are not value for money, with just a few exceptions. I'd actually prefer more contact hours rather than any services. I cannot understand how you could study eg philosophy or psychology or literature etc without much discussion not just with your fellow students but with professors.

Finally? Loads of people have said the same thing on the thread. Most people, in fact.

Its the same worldwide.
Uni of Sydney is 46% international students. They contribute 78% (!) of the student revenue.
Uni is now a business, as is pretty much everything in the world. The rich can buy whatever they want, including a degree from a 'prestigious' university.

Finally. Someone saying something remotely sensible. The £9250 doesn’t cut it. The real cost of educating an UG home students is £15000. So where do we find the difference. Foreign UGs and PGTs. Oh. And I work for an RG.