Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

There is an industry of tutors for sure, but most of what they are selling is snake oil.

You do not need extra curriculars, travel, or sport to get into any university course. There is a persistent myth that you do (and has been for at least 20 odd years - I remember my school believed that part of my Oxford interview would be about things like music and debating).

Admissions tutors literally do not care if you play the trombone to grade 8 or have backpacked around Nepal or gone to visit museums in Italy. They care about your engagement with the subject and academic potential. For a tiny number of courses (eg vet medicine) there may be specific work experience/volunteering required which will then be set out clearly on the uni website.

That is where universities like York got into financial difficulties. When there was a ready supply of international students they invested a lot in the estate to house them. Then as supply dropped they find themselves overcommitted.

The travel bit would be shocking if it was actually true.
Competitive courses are interested in activities which show genuine engagement with the subject and really don't give a damn about extracurriculars.

Pretty sure that's not really the case for home students. In many years of reading and contributing to HE threads here, the vast majority of posters who've had kids successful in their applications to competitive courses counsel against such firms. There have been cases where the parents have stumped up, with the best of intentions to help their kid but without the desired outcome and subsequent feedback was 'appeared to have been tutored'.

I have seen these companies advertised but I don’t know a single medical applicant who has spent money on this but they all have at least one offer or are now studying medicine. So you certainly do not need it.

Littoralzone · Yesterday 20:44
When fees were first introduced and then upped, the government assumed there would be competition between universities pushing down the fees they charged (the fees the government set are the maximum they can charge, not the amount they must). So universities with more perceived value would be able to charge more, whereas others would charge less to attract more students, Of course all the universities immediately charged the maximum.

That is such an interesting example of the law of unintended consequences.

The answer to your question is easy: the maximum.

@TriesNotToBeCynical

That’s shocking - especially the travel bit as not everyone has the money or opportunity to travel.
Re volunteering, do universities check up that the applicants have done the volunteering that they claim to have done?

One thing that has not been emphasised much is that a whole industry of tutors and firms has grown up showing university applicants how to burnish their CVs with irrelevencies like voluntary work, sports achievements, entrepreneurial skills and interesting activities and travel; and to teach them interview skills so they make the maximum impression with these things as well as their course aspirations. Certainly in competitive subjects like medicine, applications get nowhere unless the kids have parents willing to spend several thousand pounds on these parasites, and the activities they promote.

But then it is a question of how many international students they accept for more fees as they know they can accept more without lowering standards. They are not allowed to reduce uk student places in favour of international ones. They still have to accept a certain number of UK students.

No not just the money. Sometimes the international students are actually better than the domestic ones. Because, for example, they haven't been through our joke A-levels.

Of course fee income matters. Cambridge had a £53million deficit last year!

It's not all about money
There's also better work ethic, better behaviour, better grades and outcomes.

Alongside 24/48 hr exams who knows who is writing the answers!

I don't know what type of course you're referring to but definitely not the Cambridge engineering which I think is what the OPs dc was trying for!

If that were strictly true they wouldn’t be charging north of £30k a year (sometimes significantly more depending on course) for international students, as at that cost you are eliminating a significant portion of the most talented students.

Absolutely this. Oxford and Cambridge are not making their admissions decisions based on fee income because they don’t need it. It is just incredibly difficult to get into them - they’re two of the best universities in the world, let alone the country, and have incredibly high global recognition. You don’t just compete against students from this country to get a place.

Universities that are lower down the league tables rely on international students to bolster their finances but this won’t be the case for Oxford and Cambridge.

It's awful the trajectory its taken. University is all about the income, including research income, and little about the education. The very small handful of students who try and study in a genuine and old school manner are disadvantaged by those gaming the system and cheating. For cheating I call using interpreters, ChatGPT and essay writers all methods of cheating.

@Annoyeddd I certainly think far more exams in rooms rather than coursework would be a good thing - sorry that's a bit tough on those who 'don't do well in exams ' and those who are happy to cheat but sometimes life isn't fair !! The way it is now relative to cost unless you are going to be a medic, a lawyer ( if you can get a job) a top level scientist etc - it's not looking great value- back to fully paid for old style teacher training colleges and nursing school ( I did this many many years ago under project 2000) and we got a grant too wouldn't I think be a bad thing.

I do wonder how UK universities charge £9.5k for a couple of seminars a week for short terms, some marking and a library ticket.

🙄

They pay for:
Academic staff (students are taught by more than one)
Course administrators
Timetabling team
Academic skills
Careers and employability support
Disability and well being support
Placement teams
IT support
Library staff
Library books and licences
IT and software programmes
Catering
Cleaners
Estates
Energy bills

The answer is in your question surely?

Essay writing and Chat GPT use are rife

Alongside 24/48 hr exams who knows who is writing the answers!

Quite depressing really

It certainly has opened my eyes (when looking for son and daughter) to the changes to education since I completed an MA in the '90s and it does not appear to be in a positive direction

A previous poster said they wondered how some international students did so well in essays and dissertations when their spoken English was so poor - you only have to stroll around Bloomsbury near UCL to find out why. I have seen so many flyers for essay writing services.

Science and maths is quite different - has a language of its own which everyone has to learn.

I do wonder how UK universities charge £9.5k for a couple of seminars a week for short terms, some marking and a library ticket.

Integration is a really big challenge when it comes to international students.
Firstly they look to create a group with others from their home country and secondly they'll look to other international students because they know what it's like to study abroad.
You can understand why they do that.

I have a specific KPI related to integration and it's the one that causes me the biggest headache!

@Labraradabrador thank you for answering my question. That’s very interesting.
It’s understandable that people stick together with others with the same language and culture - it’s human nature.
My ds did Spanish A level so his command of the language was ok, but as pp have pointed out, it’s one thing translating a passage from a work by Lorca, and quite another understanding and chattering away in fast spoken Spanish. Then went to work in a small South America where none of his coworkers spoke good English and his spoken Spanish got good quickly.
My daughter went to an international school in Madrid for a 6 month course and kicked around with English speaking students so she barely learned anything which was a waste.
Sorry, that’s a derail.

Regarding speaking English my dd has noted people translate the lectures into their 'native' language and very rarely mix with others on the course (russell group politics course/international relations)

Not much sharing of ideas unfortunately