To believe that being selfish is underrated?

I agree OP. I’ve always been naturally predisposed to putting myself first and I don’t have most of the life issues that many on MN complain of.

I don't really get your argument, sorry
Being selfish is when you do something that will benefit (either only or primarily) you, usually to the detriment of someone else
So why are the police and general public selfish if they expect somebody to follow the law and drive safely?

It's obvious why the fast drivers are being selfish - they are prioritising their own enjoyment over the safety of others.

But, for example, I don't think I've ever driven on the M25. So there is no conceivable personal benefit to me to judge those drivers for driving too fast - but I still do, because they are putting other people's lives in danger and wasting police resources. So how am I being selfish?

I think if we follow this to its logical conclusion, we end up in a downward spiral where people are selfish to us so we respond with selfishness of our own, and those who've been on the receiving end of our selfishness are selfish back to us. So ultimately you end up with everyone putting themselves first, which only really works for those young and fit enough, privileged enough, with enough resources to thrive. Alternatively we could be encouraging a culture of less selfishness in the hopes of creating a positive circle of mutual support. I find the latter works best for me. I give where I can and find its reciprocated.

Totally agree with this. It's not selfish to consider your own well-being and say 'no' sometimes. So many times people (generally women) complain about the million and one things they do for other people leaving no time for themselves and they need to learn to say 'no' sometimes and stop being a martyr.

My best friend who works a full time demanding job and has teenage twins was telling me about all her weekly commitments with those things but added to that a demanding elderly mother in law. MIL wasn't even a nice person and has been awful to my friend in the past yet she was expected to run round after MIL taking her shopping and to medical appointments. Her husband however would refuse to do a lot of these things often because he was 'busy and 'going fishing' when he could have helped his mother out. Her NY resolution was to say 'no' more and stick to it.

It a very different matter to agreeing to do something then pulling out at the last moment because of 'self care'. If you don't want to do something fine, say 'no' from the outset but don't pull out at the last minute. Being a 'people pleaser' isn't an excuse.

Good selfish = Put your own your own gas mask on first, prioritise your health and well being, so you can show up best for everyone else

Bad selfish = I can't be bothered to help / turn up / do a dish / etc because it will ruin my nails / sleep / be boring etc etc

IMO there are too many toxic bad selfish people who, unsurprisingly, are being carried in life by limp, passive, weak, ineffectual people who call their total hopelessness 'being selfless'

Selfishness is inherent in all actions. Even actions we do for the good of others are to some extent selfish because they make us feel good and make us feel like we are doing the right thing.

No. Trying to be a good person is not selfish. Doing something for your gain at the expense of others is the definition of selfish.

Agree, the alternative to selfishness for women appears to be martyring themselves. Obviously conditioned by society and their upbringing but the number of posts on here where women are resentful that all they do is not recognised, when they don't have to be doing that thing. See it all the time at work, oh i better do that or it won't get done etc etc.

There’s a difference between selfishness and having healthy strong boundaries that you are able to enforce in my opinion.

Some people think it's selfish to want to go low contact with a family that's stressful to you, because then the family will be upset. Whereas as I don't think 'omg i must hang out with family or they'll be upset'
I think 'if I was the family, I'd want to know what I was doing wrong and try to apologise/rectify it, it would be mortifying to try and insist someone spent time with me when they don't want to!'
Is this me being people pleasing or not because I can't tell!

It’s about getting the right balance between being selfish and being a people-pleaser /pushover /others taking advantage. Also I’m not sure selfish is the right word, it’s more about asserting your personal boundaries.

Yeah I think the world is insanely selfish now.
Being out for yourself and not being able bear minor discomfort or inconvenience is the norm.

The difference in behaviour and resilience of children across many European countries and our own is stark.

I don't think we need to martyrs and of course you need to prioritise your well being. Honestly though I think we need to get a grip.

As a society we're too wedded to archaic systems that don't meet people's needs and selfishness.

I don't think any of these examples are selfish at all

YANBU my life has improved massively since I have myself permission to be more selfish. Not letting people down but thinking about what’s best for me when previously I’d done what other people wanted or what I’d been led to believe was the ‘right’ thing to do.

There's also the other aspect of selfish people only being able to be selfish because others aren't. There was an excellent example on another MN thread a week or two ago. It was about parking on pavements. Someone came on and said that a selfish person parking obstructing a pavement was being facilitated to do that because everyone else wasn't selfish and so found somewhere else to park instead of parking on that very same bit of pavement. It struck true and if someone else had been selfish and parked there, then that particular driver would have had to park somewhere else.

Take the chocolate box example above. The other person couldn't have selfishly eaten all the chocolates if the poster had selfishly ate them herself first!

I think it's got to be more about assertiveness, and that we all need to learn to be assertive rather than being selfish ourselves or having to put up with other people being selfish. I.e. make our wishes known in advance rather than hoping/assuming another person would know. Speaking out, i.e. "here's a box of chocolates, but don't eat all the soft centres". Basically stop letting other people be selfish.

There's definitely a balance to be struck.

Being selfish to the detriment of everyone else is obviously bad.

But so is always putting others first to your own detriment.

It's a bit like the aircraft oxygen mask scenario, put yours on first before you help others.

You have to look after yourself in the first instance, so that you're in the "right place" to help others.

I think there’s a balance, but i do think a lot of women in particular need to prioritise themselves more

I also think that criticism of selfishness in others is a form of selfishness in itself. It's clear hypocrisy. "You shouldn't have taken the last chocolate because I wanted it."

I think that's sometimes true but not always.

To continue the chocolate example, if DH and I have a box of chocolates (let's say given to us both), and he eats every single one before I get a chance, I don't think it would be selfish of me to call that a selfish thing to do.

Selfish has had such an impact on my development

This is an excellent post

im so glad the OP started this thread

I think "being selfish" can be a massive range of things. Some of which are fine and actually the person accusing you of selfishness is just annoyed that they aren't getting their own way (eg "I can't believe you'd be so selfish as to not do me this absolutely massive favour that would be a huge inconvenience and cause you other problems"). And some examples of things people might call selfish are not fine.

In the UK, atm people are more selfish than they've ever been.

I so agree.

my definition of selfishness is an actual act where the person doesn’t care that they’re inconveniencing other people

You’re so right OP.

My mum called my selfish when I was 13 but the behaviour she was calling me selfish for isn’t the type of behaviour most people would class as ‘selfish’ iyswim.

i took her criticism to heart, became a people pleaser and unfortunately the victim of ruthless bullies who humiliated me very badly and NO ONE including my mum was on my side

Selfishness is like many things, in appropriate doses it can be beneficial, but taken to excess can be damaging.

Humans have got to where we are today because of selfishness. It's a natural trait, all animals display it. A squirrel hoards nuts for their own survival, not for the good of all squirrelkind.

I also think that criticism of selfishness in others is a form of selfishness in itself. It's clear hypocrisy. "You shouldn't have taken the last chocolate because I wanted it."

Selfishness is inherent in all actions. Even actions we do for the good of others are to some extent selfish because they make us feel good and make us feel like we are doing the right thing. People like Mother Theresa were incredibly selfish individuals, they chose a life of poverty and service to others in the belief that they would get a greater reward in the afterlife. It's the same logic, albeit the scale of fucked up-ness is different, that Islamic suicide bombers use.

There was a BBC report earlier this week where police labelled drivers "selfish" for doing ridiculous speeds of 150mph+. Yes, the drivers are selfish, but so are the police, because they want others to behave in a manner that conforms to their own expecations (and the law). So do the rest of us. Me being shocked at someone bombing round the M25 at 150mph (on a motorbike, obviously, a car wouldn't have much chance of getting up to that speed on the M25) is a form of selfishness because the rider isn't keeping to the limit I expect them to.

The key is to moderate selfishness and use it appropriately. At least, that's my own selfish point of view.

I am so sick of the 'put on your own oxygen mask first' mentality. People need to realise that their actions have an impact on other people and on the planet. There is a way to take care of oneself while also being sensitive and making allowances for others and for the environment. People also need to remember that no one is perfect, that everyone is annoying and difficult sometimes, that we all need to put up with one another up to a point. Kindness, thoughtfulness, and selflessness are undervalued and sorely needed in our society.