To believe that being selfish is underrated?

I think you are cherrypicking the past somewhat.

I think the world has never been more selfish.

I saw an old video clip yesterday of a woman in war times explaining how they were all asked to have no more than 3 inches of water in their bath, and everyone complied without question. This wasn't checked up on, they all just did it to do their bit. She even recounted telling her friend that she had given herself four inches one night and her friend told her she shouldn't do it again as they wouldn't win the war.

People these days would fill their bath to the brim with absolutely no regard for others.

I think it is important to give your own feelings and desires equal priority to those close to you. You have to think long term in this though. I hate flaky people so if someone cancelled an evening with me because they'd rather watch TV I would see this as a reflection of how they saw our relationship and wouldn't be rushing to rebook seeing them. On the other hand if a relative or group of relatives wants to come on holiday with you and it will spoil the holiday for you then saying no is fine. They can arrange a different holiday. You enjoying your holiday is important too. You just don't put yourself last.

I totally agree with your definition @verycloakanddaggers - to me selfish is more doing an actual act that inconveniences someone and not caring about it

None of those are selfish, they are about normal boundaries and choices. I think your definition of selfish is incorrect.

Selfishness would be, for example:

• Eating the only diet-specific item leaving someone who needs it nothing to choose
• Not doing your share of house jobs
• Not giving up your seat on the bus to someone who needs it more

Yes, this, particularly on the extent to which what is considered ‘selfishness’ is heavily gendered.

I also get a bit impatient at the use of terms ‘self-centred’ and ‘main character syndrome’. You should consider yourself the main character in your life — ultimately you’re all you have all the way through your life! That doesn’t mean you need to behave badly towards other people. Someone who does prioritise considering themselves and their limits and capacities to a healthy extent, is far less likely to end up in the classic people-pleaser dilemma, running themselves ragged to please people they neither like nor respect while resenting it bitterly.

And I recently stood for an hour on a train to give a priority seat to a young woman with a walking stick without her even asking. So y’see I can be nice.

There is a good (academic) book about this very issue. I've shared it before on here.

Selfish Women

https://www.routledge.com/Selfish-Women/Downing/p/book/9780367249892

Agreed

But I think you are a reasonable person with sensible values. Arseholes otoh define ‘selfish’ very differently. Ie someone who they can’t control.

It will always depend on the scenario. I think as a Nation we are generally getting more selfish and self absorbed in a not nice way.

When out driving, many people are unwilling to let one car out of a junction for example. Or in the checkout queue with a weeks shopping and noticing somebody with two or three items and not letting them jump in front.

Neither of these cause us any great inconvenience and add seconds to our day, But done and played forward makes everyones lives that bit better.

I think you and I are actually on the same page, but looking at it differently. You appear to be referring to the concept of "healthy selfishness" which I consider to be something of a misdemeanor. I agree people should do what they want, providing it doesn't harm others or they're acting in a way that benefits themselves at the expense of others. But I wouldn't consider an action alone, without agenda, selfish. For example, not selfish: "I'm going to have a bath and a cake". Selfish: "I'm going to have a bath, even though I know it'll use all the hot water." I agree that people - especially women - should be their strongest advocates - but within the realms of fairness and equaity. But asking for the priority seat whether disabled (in my case) or pregnant (in women's case) isn't being selfish and I would never say it was. It's just having boundaries and a voice.

Completely agree.

I think women once they’ve had kids are told they are selfish for everything. Working and abandoning their child in nursery, breastfeeding in public, bottle feeding, expecting to take a pushchair on the bus, expecting the ‘taxpayer’ to foot the bill for x, y, z. It’s all bollocks tbh.

I literally think it often means ‘a person who doesn’t do what I want them to’

Yep, I’ll own that.

Define “selfish”. It depends where your boundaries are.

People who trample over others and and dishonest and disrespectful to get something for themselves rarely do society any favours and that includes them.

”Selfishness” in the sense of having good boundaries and looking after yourself is a good thing.

I think it’s quite gendered as a word. A lot of women have it hammered into them growing up that they need to put themselves last and consequently find it difficult to assert themselves. To the extent that understanding your needs aren’t always at the back of the queue I think a bit of selfishness is necessary. No one is going to fight on your behalf.

Doing what you want to do is selfish.

Whether it helps others or not.

Selfish doesn’t have to equal bad.

I wouldn't call those selfish, because they're not to the detriment of other people.
If you manage your needs and use that energy to put back into others (doing your job well, enjoying your socialising) that's far from being selfish.

Selfish would be flaking on your friend at the last minute leaving them disappointed and potentially out of pocket. Or in work, doing a crap job that makes life harder for the people you work with.

Being a martyr isn't necessarily generous, and meeting your own needs isn't necessarily selfish. There's a substantial middle ground where you can meet your own needs and the needs of others.

Never having leisure time so you can be with your family all the time- potentially martyrish.
Claiming a substantial amount of leisure time and lumping childcare on your partner- potentially selfish.
Negotiating leisure time with your partner so you both balance individual and family needs- healthy balance, everyone benefits.

That's not selfishness. Looking after your children isn't selfish. Being nice to people isn't selfish, unless it's only to certain people then it's strategic and manipulative perhaps but not selfish.

Why would she feel guilt? Unless she’s committed awful crimes.

Most people actually want to do good things because it makes them feel good. They are nice to people because they like them. They look after their kids because they love them. That is part of a healthy selfishness.

Yanbu op

It always amuses me on mumsnet that the most heinous crimes are apparently being selfish or rude.

Most people’s definition of selfish is ‘a person who doesn’t do what I want them to’

Human beings are selfish, it’s innate.

Yes, I've met people like you and sometimes wish I was like that, but it doesn't sit right. Do you mind me asking, how do you do it? This isn't a criticism, but a query. Do you feel guilt or compartmentalise? I'm interested.

I'm confused by some of this as the actions people are describing in some cases aren't selfish. According to the Oxford Dictionary, selfish means being concerned with one's own interests and well-being, without regard for others. It can also mean acting in a way that benefits oneself at the expense of others. So taking a rest from something that's not to the detriment of others isn't selfish, it's just self care.

Im selfish because i can be.
Its all about me what i want what i do where i go just me me me.
And i love it.

But I wouldnt call any of that selfish -assuming you had said no to the social plans straight away, not after stuff was booked by someone else.

And you definitely shouldn't go down a career path just because others expect you to! That's them being selfish - at the very least - and imposing their wants on you. Controlling and or manipulative, more than selfish, but they can often all go hand in hand.

I would just call that self care and healthy boundaries.

That's one of the silliest arguments I've ever heard on the internet, which is really saying something.

There is no personal benefit to a police officer because you follow the speed limit. Do you think the police service gives out a free lollipop every time someone doesn't break the speed limit?

The purpose of public services is to benefit society, and most public servants, including teachers, police officers, and NHS staff work far in excess of their contracted hours, often to the detriment of their own personal lives, because they feel a duty to do the job to the best of their ability.

Police enforce the speed limit because drivers going at 150mph are highly likely to kill or injure an innocent person and they want to stop that happening to someone.

Taking adequate time for rest or self-care isn't selfish. Saying "no" to commitments you can't meet isn't selfish.

Breaking your promises to others, failing to be there for people who have been there for you when they need you, putting your own wants before the needs of your dependents (i.e. children) and flaking on your responsibilities to others and to society is selfish.

As PP says, selfish people rely on the tolerance and emotional labour of selfless people to continue to be selfish.

And it's always the most selfish people who already never consider the needs of the others who talk about how they never put themselves first and need to practise more self-care the moment they do even the smallest task to benefit someone else.