To think contraception has been a greater liberator to men than to women?

That may be the case, but if people don’t want babies then they can’t be forced to have them.

I’ve got a lovely family with my partner and stepson, but haven’t contributed to the birth rate in any way myself. Didn’t want to, so didn’t.

Contraception gives us that choice.

We know that globally, as women become more emancipated and educated and are given control over their fertility, they choose to have fewer children. Are you proposing that it’s a bad thing that educated women with social and economic freedoms are able to choose how many children they have and how those children are spaced, and contraception is bad because we need women to just have lots of babies whether they want to or not to prop up things like pension schemes and welfare? Because otherwise, it’s unclear what point you’re making.

It isn’t for women to sacrifice their bodies and their freedoms to create new people for a future society.

@Macrodatarefiner
Please don't make assumptions about my ability to change my mind. I wouldn't enter a debate if my intention wasn't to understand your point of view. If you want to discuss dialectical materialism, that's a slightly separate issue from contraception and freedom of choice it affords. So, perhaps, a different thread is in order.
If you think, it is relevant, please provide concrete examples or, at least, describe in your own words how dialectical materialism ideas impact on someone's choices to abstain or have sex and how it might impact on someone's freedom to not associate with people who have different ideas. Posting Wikipedia citations doesn't really help me to see your point of view.

@Macrodatarefiner

Does the collapsing birth rate worry you at all?

It's not near the top of my list of concerns: I think the planet is over-populated.

You're painting this as if this is something men have imposed upon women against their will but it really isn't as simple as that.

There are lots of very rational reasons why many women as well as men don't want to have loads of children. Many of these reasons are economic at the moment due to the cost of living, but beyond that, a lot of women welcome the fact that they have options in life beyond becoming baby factories, not least because they increasingly can't rely on men to provide financial security for these babies.

Why would it be a good idea to reverse that?

I disagree. What is true is that contraception has made it much much easier to avoid getting married both for men and women.

But your post seems to take as read that most or all women want marriage to a man and most men don't want marriage to a woman so it's making it easier for men to avoid marriage and ergo is then bad for women.

It may be true that contraception makes it easier for people not to get married. But contraception offers women two really key benefits: it allows them control over how many children they have which takes them out of a cycle of endlessly having to have and rear children. It also critically allows them to work which reduces their reliance on men in the first place. For me those far outstrip the marginal benefit of it being easier to get married.

So if your ultimate life gameplan as a woman is to get married to be "kept", your assertion is probably true. But that is the case now for fewer and fewer women and I think the benefits of birth control are far more important than this.

Well there we have it. Lol.

Probably don't need to engage with this person any longer since they're stuck in some sex shamed religious hole.

Women like sex, contraception means we can have it without the worry of being pregnant and having to raise a kid. You think that benefits men more then you're simply denying that women can enjoy sex as much as men. Or you believe women should be 'punished' by becoming mothers because you think women can only be mothers or whores. Neither looks good on you.

I'm going to go have some wreckless out of marriage sex, do think of me.

That’s fair enough.

I went on it at 32 having had the (also hormonal) coil removed, with all of the information available to me - because I don’t like condoms and don’t want babies.

It doesn’t matter to me if a hypothetical man would do the same thing, because my decision making ends at what I’d do with my own body, not theirs.

If you want to have a sensible debate, please do me a favour and expand on your points. Don't just give me nebulous soundbites.

Now it means freedom of choice. Your choice is to abstain, mine may be different and we are both free to follow our beliefs. Someone's expectations have no bearing on my choices. They are free to adjust them or remove themselves from my life and my dating pool.

@SleeplessInWherever I took the pill at 17 because that's what you did. My doctor said it would help with period cramps, protect against pregnancy and I would know when my period was.

Nothing else was explained . I had no idea what it was doing to my body.

Obviously women have a choice and that is a positive thing but I doubt men would choose to take artificial hormones which can cause side effects purely to prevent pregnancy.

Madness.

This isn’t ancient times, it’s 2025.

The opposite of shagging about isn’t bad, it’s monogamy - which lots of people do.

It’s about having the freedom of choice to do either, which is a positive thing to have.

I was wondering how long it would be before the batshit came out.

Believe sex is dangerous if you want to - you are free not to have it, just as we are free to have it - but please don't call it feminism or cloak it in concern for women's liberation.

You're not answering the questions. I'm not talking about rape or sexual assault, both of which can happen if you're married, unmarried, promiscuous or a virgin.

Why is sex dangerous? What's wrong with the freedom to have sex?

Why is sex dangerous?

What's wrong with having the freedom to have sex?

What about the women who choose to take hormonal contraceptives, because they too don’t like condoms?

Not everything is male choice.

What I find interesting is a lot of the main contraceptives are for women to take and pump synthetic hormones into their bodies whilst enduring weight gain, mood swings, headaches etc.

And then men complain they don't like the feel of condoms . I doubt many men would put up with the side effects of hormonal contraception

I do think that those men who take themselves out of the “father” pool, don’t want to be and shouldn’t be fathers.

So it’s a good thing that they’re made unavailable, surely we don’t have to have kids with them anyway.

Pardon?