To ask for people's experience of SEN provision

@BananaNirvana didn't take it as such. I am fortunate and I am angry that a parents personal and / or financial circumstances so very much Influence the child who deserves the same oppertunities as the next child.

It's abhorrent how long NHS takes.

I wasn’t having a dig at you going private - Hope you didn’t take it as such. The system is fucked and there’s no judgment from me re paying privately. I’d do the same x

In summary, to get appropriate Sen provision for two sen children I've done 9 appeals via the special educational needs and disability tribunal, had around a dozen upheld local government and social care ombudsman complaints and been forced to pay a small fortune for a pre action letter for judicial review. All in the last 7 years.

Oh gosh same here. Are you in Suffolk? Or is it the usual National problem!

I fostered a DC who had SN and attended a special school. This school.was rated as outstanding. We found it poor. For DC with very large needs they were good with additional TA's in already small classes of about 8. For the slightly more able the provision was poor. Teachers seemed reluctant to offer differentiated learning for a student a little more able in one subject. The DC we cared for arrived at this school having already passed his exam in Entry Level Maths level 3. We expected he would be learning Functional skills level 1. Instead he was made to spend a whole term learning Entry level 2 which he had passed the exam 18 months before. Once we realised we complained and were told this is the level the class is working at and we can't expect the teacher to have to prepare separate work for DC. I was furious as a teacher myself who prepped differentiated lessons for my students needs. I had a class of 27 and could manage it yet this school thought it almost impossible. The rest of the year was spent relearning Entry level 2 and also the first term of the following year. He only started Functional skills level 1 2 terms before his exam. I got him a tutor 3 times a week 1 hour English, 1 hour Maths and 1 hour of Science. I got social worker to complain too and got virtual school involved and school were told to let him sit the Functional Skills 1 or they'd let him sit it at another local school. He passed the exam. He then left at 16 to go to a local college and they have been 100 times better with him. They have given him a 1-1 support in the classroom. They have encouraged him and supported his learning and in just one year he managed to sit his GCSE and get a level 4 pass which would have been unheard of at the special school. DH believes they deliberately stopped DC from progressing onto harder exams because the funding they got was much higher if the DC seemed to be less able. Another parent was in the same position but left it to the school to decide what their dc should sit. He who had been on the same level as our foster son ended up with just Entry Level 3 which he'd already got 3 years before so had in fact made no progress at this school whatsoever. I saw this child's Mum last year and she asked how my foster child had done at college because her son stayed at the special school until he was 19. I told her he'd got the GCSE in Maths level 4 and she was shocked because her D's had been better at Maths than my foster son at the point they started the special school. I've formed the opinion special schools are probably good for DC who have very low ability but not so good for DC with a little more ability in one or 2 subjects. Obviously that's just my experience of one school but I've heard similar from other parents.

Both my children have attended special schools.

DS has been in a LA special school for children with ASD and MLD since he started in reception.

My DD attended a special school for children with complex needs between years 8-11 after her transition to secondary school was a disaster and she was out of school for about 7 months. This school was an independent specialist school.

For both children we got various diagnoses on the NHS (ASD, ADHD, DCD and developmental delay). We waited about 12- 18 months on the waiting list but this was before covid. Both EHCP applications were accepted without a fight, again this was before covid. But I got an legal advisor to help with EHCP contents and placement.

Oh and we still have “statements” that seem to be cast in stone from issue to age 19, no updating happens at AR that I have seen.

Former SEND teacher here - have worked in mainstream ASD unit in primary, generic special primary and in an independent all-through special for high performing students with ASD. The latter was entirely funded by four or five local authorities who had lost appeals after placing these (mainly boys) students in generic special where there was no specialist ASD/PDA/ADHD provision or training for staff. Now in NI and horrified at the fact there are zero specialist independent schools, no mechanism to start one or pathway for appeal / referral. And zero post-19 provision that in any way comes close to what exists in the rest of the UK. Most parents I speak to are just beaten by the lack of a system / solutions / opportunities as even if they had the fight in them, there’s nothing to fight towards accessing. I thought it was crap and failing in England, this is like taking a step 50 years back in time. No understanding of EBSA, no real EOTAS provision and a backlog of 5 year waiting lists if you even manage to get a referral. Shocking.

I appreciate your last sentence. In case you change your mind in the future, because EHCPs can last until 25, or 26 in some cases, the LA is lying to you. You can inform the LA you are no longer EHEing and they must make arrangements for the provision in F (and whilst DC is CSA, a suitable full-time education). If this isn’t forthcoming, it can be enforced, via JR if necessary. And you can request any appeal is expedited. Although as I said, I appreciate your last sentence. Just giving you all the information so you can make an informed decision.

I see this quite often. Some parents are saying they think it's because it saves a lot of money to stop providing provision just before year 11 because by the t'aime the parent gets it to tribunal the school year has past. Then without GCSEs kid can't get onto college courses etc Eltham would require the LA to fund support longer term.

Its absolutely disgusting a child's whole future is impacted because it saves the LA a bit of money

I lucked out with my son's school. Excellent sendco and they have pastoral care. Standard city centre school. He has ADHD and possible autism. He has fidget toys, wobble cushion, his own desk and space in the classroom, movement breaks, school paid for edpsych, indies, sensory review, family support worker, 1:1 when he needs it, reward chart and visual aids, behavioural evaluation, etc etc. School are incredible to the point that we don't need an EHCP where in other schools he might.

I have friends whose children have higher needs than his and they get very little support.

@BrightYellowTrain I asked about any help and they kept saying I choose to homeschool so no option. And insisted needs could be met in mainstream. I should have fought when I took them out of school - but we have one year left of school now so the fight would take as long as the time they have at school. And if I am honest I am out of fight, I don't have it in me.

My child has been out of school since September 23. We have now spent 2 years fighting for a ehcp. 2 tribunals for a child not able to be in school. A child that was on a 4 staff to 1 ratio and reduced timetable for 1 hour a day. But far as the la was concerned school could give more staff.

Finally got a ehcp after conceding before hearing.. only no mainstream will take him. Though we recognised it wasn't suitable.

No maintained special school will take him because of his PDA profile. We are now consulting independent special schools. But even they are generally saying no.

We may get EOTAS in September if there's still no school... by that point he's missed 2 full school years. And part of a previous one.

However my youngest is thriving in a mainstream with a srp. 6 months ago she was non verbal and had never spoken a word. Now she's chatting away (albeit more like a 2 year old then a 5year old) but her provision is making such a difference considering nhs SALT discharged her and basically had the opinion she will never speak.

From day 1 she has had the support and help required. But her year alone has a very high level of SEN which has meant a higher ratio of staff in the class as well.

LA are yet to work out how their EOTAS students can sit exams

A clear case of strategic incompetence. One thing LAs are good at.

I don’t know why, or what can be done about it, but there seem to be a huge swathe of children who struggle emotionally and socially with large mainstream state secondary schools. Many of them will have underlying diagnosed or undiagnosed ASD or ADHD.
Those environments just don’t work for them, and the children will not/cannot attend.

But the state special school provision isn’t designed for them either, there are some schools around but many are for children with learning disabilities and higher physical and intellectual needs.

as the OP said, many of those children might find they can manage in a small nurturing private school.
there are also specialist private schools with a mixture of EHCP funded and privately funded pupils.
Many others end up being home schooled.

But what’s the answer? Round where I live the local secondary school is 12 form entry. The next nearest 9 form entry. There simply isn’t a choice of a smaller environment. And financially smaller schools are doomed.

Is it that school environments are larger/more daunting/less flexible? Is it that kids are less resilient? More neurodivergence? I just don’t know.

thats one end of the spectrum and then therr are kids with even more complex needs who are out of school on reduced timetables or at home with no education for years while a placement is found 😞

DD1 - SEN identified within 6 weeks of joining preschool. 1:1 support given in preschool for safety and then special school. Primary fine. Secondary was a disaster. 2 colleges disastrous. Now at a third college and doing well. Currently with 1:1 support. Suspect they may try to reduce that at annual review.

DD2 struggled at infant school 1, moved to primary school 1, struggled and left primary school 1, moved to primary school 2. Primary school 2 finally saw that she had ASD traits. Diagnosed in year 7. Limped through secondary school until falling apart in year 10. Completely unable to attend school. EHCP put in place and specialist independent school place awarded. Didn't cope. Given EOTAS package but very poor provision. Now in a specialist provision that gives bespoke education 1:1 for 25 children.

DD3 did ok until year 8. Limped through until year 9, until falling apart in year 10. Diagnosed with ASD and OCD. Now in a specialist provision that gives bespoke education 1:1 for 25 children, but can't attend, so teachers come to her.

My children are older, dd still has her EHCP. She was dx the week of her second birthday, as part of the multidisciplinary assessment they also involved education and so the statementing process began alongside. This meant that she had a statement of SEN (EHCP predecessor) before she set foot in any educational establishment. It worked really well in Primary although we changed schools in year 1 largely to avoid her spending two years with a really poor teacher.
Secondary was a different matter, too big, too noisy, too many changes coupled with her having no behavioural issues and being academically very able led the school to believe they could take liberties and not make the provision in the now EHCP and dd became less able to cope. Attendance dropped, part time timetable and eventually she stopped attending.
LA provided tutors, I started an appeal to SENDIST, LA named a special school with no GCSE curriculum (mainstream predicted 7 to 9 at GCSE) and no peer group. After a battle dd attended out of County independent specialist very happily until 19. Back to SENDIST again, LA conceded day before to a large and expensive EOTAS package. Dd is now almost 22, package remained unchanged at last AR. She loves it, me less so, LA are yet to work out how their EOTAS students can sit exams so it's all a bit rudderless and of course it means the objective to sit level 3 exams can't be met so the EHCP continues.
27 years now I've been in the system, numerous formal complaints to LA, pre action protocol letters, appeals to SENDIST, one date for Judicial Review, complaints upheld by LGO, lots of compensation, I'm counting down the days until the EHCP ceases and I never have to communicate with the LA again if I'm honest.

In my experience - teacher - provision in special schools is fabulous. Provision in mainstream state schools is tokenistic and a waste of money. Often simply having a poorly trained TA sit next to a child in class. Even great TAs struggle to be effective as there isn't the time to work independently with the child or to meet with the teacher for regular catch ups and guidance. Money would be better spent on whole school provisions which would benefit all - and therefore also the SEN student. Smaller class sizes for example.

I think what is missing in education is that middle way between Schools for those who are always going to need care and mainstream education especially at senior school level

DS found it difficult to cope in senior school yet was not at the level of the school where full time care is needed

2 children with SEN
State primary refused to accept there was any such thing as an SEN

Eventually drove all those with children out when they got rid of 121 and any SEN support.
His teacher suggested that DS needed to go to a Special School because he scored 0 in his year 3 English exam (he couldn’t read or write)
Said he was unteachable and he would need 24 hour care.
(DS is now learning Mandarin, has a manager position job and has grown his investments 20% per year for the past 3 years, even taking into account the AI issues of this week)

Gave up trying to get DS the help he needed and home schooled him.

Tried CAHMS who were useless
Said DS didn’t have ADHD within a split second of seeing him.

DS diagnosed with ADHD in later teens

All I knew is every time he started a school year I would ask about getting him referred but first of all they did a wait and see and said they needed to get to know DS then when talked about referring him they said as he would be moving up a year in the next few months it would be better if the next years teacher saw.

They had no intention of referring him. They would rather see your child struggle and wash their hands of him after a few months

If your child has an SEN then either be prepared to give up work and home school or work and spend all your salary going private because from where I am standing there is no help

Dd had similar issues to DS but went to a private school that specialised in a certain area of activity (academic schoolwork was only for 1/2 the week)
They had a wonderful Sen department. Dd had a 121 session, a joint session with another child and a larger SEN session with children of all ages where they openly discussed their issues and others in the class would talk about their little tricks to overcome them.

Dd said she learned so much from these sessions

I don’t think there are too many private schools that would do this

For us in our situation we have a 3.4 year old boy who despite saying many words is still considered non-verbal from a speech POV, and is going to be assessed for autism at some unknown point in the future. NHS SALT has been both useful and not so useful. Useful in that it’s a box ticked and the referral for the autism assessment was made through them, but useless in that there’s no actual active therapy from them with my son, who is clearly in need of it. I as the parent have to do it, of which I am ill equipped to do. Of course I don’t mind doing some degree of ‘homework’ but he clearly needs regular contact with a flesh and blood therapist who also gets him and his learning style. Outside of that obvious issue there are absolutely zero specialist provisions in our area…not just our area but the entire county. So my son has to go to a mainstream school, of whom are not equipped to meet his needs. I am currently considering private if the school will admit him, pretty much for his safety and wellbeing. He’s a bright, curious and happy boy, and he doesn’t deserve this absolute failing. The ironic thing is that the professionals working in these early intervention fields got into the career to help people, but the government are ultimately to blame for making it near impossible for early intervention to happen. It’s only going to cost the taxpayer more money down the line which is ironic.

My DGS has recently been put in a Special School by his local authority. All his diagnoses came from his last authority. It took 10 weeks and I took holiday and compassionate leave to enable his DM to start her new job.
The school is not ideal because it deals with children who can hardly read and write but, at least, it is school. My DGS has a higher than average IQ. His DM is hoping he will have access to a more appropriate school in September but she will need to start asking about this now to ensure the LA take her concerns seriously.

@RhaenysRocks you are completely right, it is 'impossibly broken'. SEN spend last year was over £10 billion, but outcomes if anything are getting worse. It cant be a case of just throwing more money at SEN as its just not there, every service from nhs to social care to emergency services is competing for funding. There needs to be some creative thinking about education as a whole in this country, with more accountability, tailored provision to prevent children reaching crisis point, both SEN and mainstream children are being failed by this focus on inclusion and teachers are at breaking point

My son was off-rolled from his independent age 5, he barely attended a term full time as the teachers could not cope. He was never a school refuser, they shortened his hours so they could get the rest of the class to hit their targets. I knew he was ND from age 2/3, he's like the rest of his paternal family who are all extremely successful. I've paid for diagnosis, private tutors, ehcp etc. There is nothing that suits him as he's too academic for SEN education, unwanted in private and shoved to the side is state. I'm lucky, well he's lucky, that I can home ed. I'm not a teacher, I don't want to be a teacher. I'm having no help and when I ask the home ed community they don't really believe in teaching much at this age. My son wants education and is now getting on well and will clearly thrive under my care and tuition. I wish I could get someone else to do it/help! We're just finding our feet and we are so blessed to have my husband to support us through this both financially and emotionally. He was educated elsewhere and hadn't set foot in a school at our son's age, I really think the UK system is extremely damaging and limiting for our SEN children. My son is differently abled, not disabled (academically) and I fully expect him to thrive in life. Thank goodness he has me and his dad, no-one is helping or advising us. I could have applied/sued for EOTAS but frankly I couldn't be bothered to deal with this dire system any more when we (completely unqualified) can do far, far better.

I wouldn't hold your breath sadly, they all know about the issues, but knowing about them and solving them are 2 very different things.

A few years ago I did NCT with a lady who was a backbench labour MP at the time ( she is now minister for pensions)and I spoke to her about trying to prevent closure of specialist nurseries for children with SEN in the area I work in, and which at the time we both lived in.

Her response was very negative, she didn't see the need for them despite all the evidence around early intervention, there was absolutely no willingness to help although it was in her power to prevent these closures.