To ask quick SEN question - SATs

The HT doesn’t need your consent to disapply DD from the SATS. The guidance explicitly states the HT has the final decision, although they should discuss it with you and DD would still count towards the statistics.

I used to teach. For the Reading SATs, teachers absolutely cannot read the paper to the children. They can read to them for all others, but it is not allowed for the Reading paper - because it is testing their reading ability, not just their comprehension. (I do think that this is hugely unfair on dyslexic children like your daughter btw. There are other things I also think are vastly unfair, like the fact that children CANNOT gain Expected for Writing SATs if their handwriting is messy - even if they write the most beautiful, sophisticated work in the world.)

Have you looked at this guidance for registering pupils for SATs?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/key-stage-2-tests-guide-to-registering-pupils-for-the-tests

Children who are working 'below the standard' of the KS2 tests don't have to sit them - that means children who are working at KS1 or lower. But they could, for example, be disapplied from the Reading - but not from Maths, because they can access the Maths fine. Has your daughter been disapplied from everything? Because that seems crazy to me - she will be entitled to a reader for every other paper.

Also, I really do feel that disapplying her from the SATs is a conversation that should have been had between you and the class teacher / the head / the SENCO. Especially as your daughter really wants to do them. Sounds like she would qualify for extra time on the Reading paper.

If it were me, I'd be asking for a meeting with school pronto. And making sure they know she doesn't want this alternative timetable, and she's perfectly happy to have a go at the SATs revision that everyone else is doing.

Your daughter sounds lovely BTW! What a mature little girl.

They can’t assess her reading if someone else does the reading for her.

Your dd may want to sit the tests but that doesn’t mean it’s what’s best for her. Setting her up to fail is not good for her. They need to be educating her at her own level and they can’t just shove her in reception when they’re doing sats work. She deserves to be taught what she needs to learn. I would be fighting for proper provision, not the SATs.

She should be getting extra time. My dc (autism) both get 25% extra time.

She isn’t allowed a reader for the reading paper.

It is mock SATs where I am this week, maybe the timetable is just for this week? Year 6 still have the rest of the curriculum to learn so I doubt that she could be timetabled out till May. I would ask for clarification.

I should have said, she could also have the Grammar and Punctuation test read to her, but wouldn’t be allowed any help in understanding the terms used.

If she is timetabled to do craft or playing with younger children during the tests themselves, plus one lot of practice tests, that’s reasonable. But if it’s a regular occurrence between now and May, it isn’t. Talk to the school.

Has your DD had a look at some Sats papers? If not, you can access old paper online for free. You could print off a reading one and a maths one and have a look through together.
If your DD isn't overwhelmed by them, then that would be a good conversation starter with the school.

SATs tests are designed for children working at or above a particular standard. Children who are working below that standard should not be entered for the tests.

There would be no point your DD sitting the tests if she was unable to do or even have a reasonable go at the things being tested. It would just be a depressing and miserable experience for her.

There are special arrangements called "access arrangements" possible for children who have specific difficulties, but from what you say your dd wouldn't benefit from these. She could possibly have extra time, rest breaks, someone to read the maths papers to her, a scribe - but it doesn’t sound as if these would help. No reading help is allowed for the reading comprehension test.

There is no point her being tested on things she has not been taught or cannot do, and it would be wrong for the school to enter her for the tests if they assess her as working below the level needed. You can find, online, tests from past years, so you can see what they are like.

Having said all that, the school should definitely be discussing all this with you. Ask for a meeting.

Just to clarify- is the timetable she's been given for a specific week (e.g. a mock SATS week) or for every week? More understandable if it's a one off if they have decided she isn't sitting the tests but totally unacceptable if it's an every week thing. Although Y6 is SATS year, every should be taught a full curriculum adapted to their needs if necessary, so that isn't OK.

The guidance is generally that if a child is working below the key stage (I.e. at year 2 level) then they shouldn't take the SATs - it depends whether her reading delay is causing her to work at that level in Maths too, in which case a reader wouldn't help.

I would assume that the school have made the decision in her best interests following the guidance as it won't help their data at all. They must assume she would score almost zero in every test otherwise it would be "worth" entering her if she could achieve any kind of scaled score. Did she do KS1 SATs?

However, all that said, this should have been agreed in discussion with you and with your daughter, so I'm really sorry its been done this way.

When I say pass, I mean that they are working at a KS1 level and they have a form of SEN which means the SATs will put undue pressure on them.

If we pull a child out of SATs, you do know that still counts as a fail for the school? So there is no cheating, we don't gain anything apart from not seeing our children with sen extremely overwhelmed.

My understanding of this is that it doesn’t help the school’s statistics because your DD will effectively be counted as a ‘no score’ if she doesn’t take part. Therefore I would assume it’s a decision the school haven’t taken lightly and has been made on the basis that she won’t pass, and it would likely impact her self esteem.

They should have discussed this with you though!! Ask for a meeting about it- find out why. I’d also not want my DC crafting whilst others learned- perhaps she can do the study sessions with differentiated work, even if she doesn’t do the SATS.

If that's what you do, your school cheats.
It makes me so angry that other schools do this!

You can not remove a child from SATs because you don't think they'll achieve the expected standard!

At our school, we only pull a child out of SATS if we feel that they can't pass them and the pressure would be unfair on them. Saying that, it is always discussed with parents first! We discuss it with them before Christmas.

I think that if your child wants to sit SATS then they definitely should be able to. A reader and a scribe should be provided for everything other than the reading paper. Extra time would be allowed too. Ask for a meeting with the class teacher and Send team.

If a child will negatively impact on the school's data and the school has a way of removing that child from SATs, the school will almost certainly do the. This is not a reflection on the school this is the system that schools work within.

Apply as a parent yourself for an EHCplan . ignore what they say - it’s too much hassle for them to apply - I agree - you won’t get one easily - but if you are prepared to fight and prepared to go to tribunal you may/ may not get an ehc plan but you certainly will get her on the radar and get her more help than she is currently getting.

both of mine we were told ‘weren’t bad enough’ for an EHCplan. Both of mine got plans and both ended up in specialist schools, both at various times having 1:1 support . Mainstream didn’t have a clue what to do with them and didn’t understand the depth of their needs - only the assessment process unpicked it all and highlighted how much help they did require.

Include the timetable they have provided with your parental application . Shame the school and highlight this shoddy practice. . Also make a complaint to the sen governor including the timetable - If school think ‘playing with nursery kids’ and ‘craft’ is a suitable education for a 10 year old girl they’re is something very wrong. They are not trying to teach her - they are babysitting her. This is not education . I would be livid with rage .

From what you have said she is a clever girl who has severe learning difficulties around dyslexia and dycslculia. That doesn’t mean she can’t learn- it means she learns differently - She needs teaching to support her to achieve her potential - have they offered readers, scribes, teaching her touch typing, voice to speech software , precision teaching methods? What on Earth are they doing with her to help her to learn?

both of mine have multiple needs - dyslexia being one of them - both struggled hugely to read/ write - but both now can because of targeted specialist teaching that was skilfully taught and patiently practised until they got there. Mine were years and years behind their chronological age - but special school never just ‘accepted’ this as dyslexia. They knew it was the cause of their difficulties but they put things into place to teach them and close the gap… not just accept they are 4 years behind. They can’t just throw up their hands and say she is behind. There is so much they can do to help her.

Sounds like they are just letting her drift which is awful. She has a right to a decent education that is tailored to her needs. Not to be playing and crafting instead of learning to read and write. It is frankly insulting to her intelligence and to every child with sen to do this. The days of the ‘special needs kids’ colouring in in the corner table whilst the other kids learn should be well and truly relegated to history. Get angry on her behalf - start making a lot of noise to get her the education she deserves.

I have 2 kids with sen - had they been in mainstream at the year 6 sats it would not have been appropriate for them to sit them - as just too much and work would be too far above their attainment levels. By year 6 mine were both in specialist schools who were interested in teaching them at the level they were at - not teaching to test for government sats. But I would have expected them, if in mainstream still and not doing the normal sats work to be doing targeted work to help with her dyslexia snd dyscalculia. Suitable maths and English targeted to her level - not playing in the sand with nursery.

She is being failed - they are not providing her with an education suitable to her learning difficulties and you need to complain loud and hard to fight for provision.

How is she ever going to improve if they don’t actually bother to teach her?

mine couldn’t do sats at yr6 as they were too far behind at that stage - mainstream had failed them . Getting an EHCplan and into specialist schools changed everything - because finally they were taught properly and according to their needs - both ended up passing GCSE’s and both passed level 3 courses (BTEC) at very high grades by age 19. I am so proud of how much they have overcome and what they have achieved.

Get angry and take action. read SoSsEN, ipsea websites. Read the mumsnet sen boards and education boards. Don’t give in . Educate yourself on the law and start demanding some action.

She gets one chance at education and they are currently messing it up.

Fight for her - no one else will - get her the support and the education she deserves.

Has she at least got a learning plan in place at the school, detailing what adjustments, interventions they have in place for her?

@Evermore1 it’s not up to them - you can apply for a needs assessment yourself. If she’s on the SEND register you must have copies of her IEPs etc.

Have you sought advice from your local SENDIASS? You need to get angry and get moving. You still have time to get her an EHCP this academic year but it’s tight.

My son has ASD and took his SATS but couldn’t cope with the booster classes.

School and I discussed the best way forward and agreed he was a academically able but the revision was causing burnout so we agreed no workout outside school day and what will be will be.

The school should be discussing the approach, possible benefits and/or disadvantages with you before making any decisions.

My son’s school wasn’t the best but they were caring and put in all the adjustments he needed and I trusted them to do the right thing for him.

No adjustments and no discussions are unacceptable.

Does she have an EHCP? Where is she going to senior school? Will she have proper support? I’d be concerned that a full picture of her needs hasn’t been communicated and that senior may be a shock.

Children who do not sit the SATS are still included in the statistics for the school so there is no benefit to the school in doing this.

The recommendation is that children working at KS1 levels should not do them. It can cause significant psychological distress to some children if they are made to do the SATs when they are clearly not capable f accessing them in any way.

Ideally this decision is made with the parents.

Disapplied children still count in the statistics so this wouldn't be the reason.