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Original poster

To find what DC said really sad?

266 replies

Haemagoblin · 28/01/2025 21:37

I was parking the car with my DD8 in the back, and making a bit of a hash of it. I laughed to DD "God I hope Daddy's not looking out the window, he'll be laughing at me!"

She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much".

I find this so so sad. I mean she's not wrong, he's a bit of a gloomy person; but he does try to be a good dad, playfights with them and teases them and makes jokes,so I guess I didn't realise how much his naturally quite negative vibe was actually being picked up on by the children.

Should I talk to him about it? We are not in a very good place so I worry he'll see it as me getting at him - but if my kid had said something like that about me I'd want to know!

OP posts:
Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 06:17

theleafandnotthetree · 29/01/2025 06:14

I have little advice but I just want to say that you sound an incredibly thoughtful, kind and selfless mum OP and whatever choices you make, and however things evolve- and of course, you are not the only person with agency - your children will benefit enormously from that. I ended my not dissimilar sounding marriage 8 years ago when my children were 6 and 9 and we have been doing 50/50 since. Though they rarely complain and are pretty happy well balanced teenagers now, I continure to feel guilt and sadness hat this is their life, that they don't get to have the conventional and from their point of view, more ideal set up, that their lives will continue to be complicated. Hand on heart, while it was 100% the right choice for me, on balance I don't think it was necessarily the right choice for them. You are very close to where I was and I jumped. Of course I have no way of knowing what the other choice would have ended up like. Muddling through and ok I think, certainly not terrible or miserable. So probably though not necessarily better for them. The 'original sin' as such in my case- possibly in yours - was the poor choice of partner/,husband. Everything else flowed from that and was always going to be difficult, flawed, messy. As you say, no 100% good choices, just less bad ones. All you can do regardless is continue to be as good a parent as possible and within appropriate age limits, continue to talk to them, to be open yourself, to allow feelings to be expressed, especially if you do split up. I have a male friend who was bemoaning how his son post separation would never talk about it ((I'm fine!) but as I said, why would he when he has learned at the hands of a master not to talk about his feelings. We cannot make our children happy, but we can certainly through example and encouragement, teach them to express and cope with their feelings. What your daughter said about her Dad is very sad on one hand but also very astute and emotionally intelligent and these are things that will stand her in good stead regardless of what the future holds. We none of us know what that will be.

Thank you so much for this post, it means the world to me and I'm wiping away a tear if I'm honest. It sounds like your kids are doing great in the circumstances, and you sound like a lovely mum.

OP posts:
FirmHam · 29/01/2025 06:16

* We are not in a very good place*

no surprise
your daughter seems to be acutely aware of and indeed suffering from a very poor atmosphere

theleafandnotthetree · 29/01/2025 06:14

I have little advice but I just want to say that you sound an incredibly thoughtful, kind and selfless mum OP and whatever choices you make, and however things evolve- and of course, you are not the only person with agency - your children will benefit enormously from that. I ended my not dissimilar sounding marriage 8 years ago when my children were 6 and 9 and we have been doing 50/50 since. Though they rarely complain and are pretty happy well balanced teenagers now, I continure to feel guilt and sadness hat this is their life, that they don't get to have the conventional and from their point of view, more ideal set up, that their lives will continue to be complicated. Hand on heart, while it was 100% the right choice for me, on balance I don't think it was necessarily the right choice for them. You are very close to where I was and I jumped. Of course I have no way of knowing what the other choice would have ended up like. Muddling through and ok I think, certainly not terrible or miserable. So probably though not necessarily better for them. The 'original sin' as such in my case- possibly in yours - was the poor choice of partner/,husband. Everything else flowed from that and was always going to be difficult, flawed, messy. As you say, no 100% good choices, just less bad ones. All you can do regardless is continue to be as good a parent as possible and within appropriate age limits, continue to talk to them, to be open yourself, to allow feelings to be expressed, especially if you do split up. I have a male friend who was bemoaning how his son post separation would never talk about it ((I'm fine!) but as I said, why would he when he has learned at the hands of a master not to talk about his feelings. We cannot make our children happy, but we can certainly through example and encouragement, teach them to express and cope with their feelings. What your daughter said about her Dad is very sad on one hand but also very astute and emotionally intelligent and these are things that will stand her in good stead regardless of what the future holds. We none of us know what that will be.

Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 06:14

YouTellEmBigD · 29/01/2025 06:05

Is "playfighting and teasing" his children really the mark of a good father?
Or is it intimidating them with his physical size and strength over theirs, and putting them down?

Oh no trust me they have the upper hand in the playfighting. Largely consists of them pushing him over and jumping up and down on him while he affects total helplessness. They love it, and I thank god he does it because my body is falling apart and I have zero patience for that kind of thing 😂

The teasing I do not get at all as it would drive me bananas, but it's stupid things like asking what they want on their toast and, when they say "butter and jam", putting the tub and the jar in a tower on the slice 🤦🏼‍♀️ bloody nonsense but the kids do find it funny!

OP posts:
DorothyStorm · 29/01/2025 06:12

YouTellEmBigD · 29/01/2025 06:05

Is "playfighting and teasing" his children really the mark of a good father?
Or is it intimidating them with his physical size and strength over theirs, and putting them down?

This massively atood out for me too. Someone you describe as an angry man and a grumpy man, who your child says never smiles, should not be ‘play’ fighting with children or making fun of then.

your poor children. Youre not taking the edge off his angriness by living together, in their eyes you are condoning it.

YouTellEmBigD · 29/01/2025 06:05

Is "playfighting and teasing" his children really the mark of a good father?
Or is it intimidating them with his physical size and strength over theirs, and putting them down?

Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 05:51

Agapornis · 29/01/2025 05:41

Don't be another woman resigning herself and her children to a shit situation. They don't have a choice, you do. Set a good example and show that they should only stay in relationships that make them happy.

Don't kid yourself that your children will benefit from living with an angry, grumpy man. I grew up with one, my siblings and I have not forgiven him or my mum.

He's very unlikely to go for 50/50 contact, and your children will vote with their feet the moment they're old enough.

Edit -feel like people are ignoring that he went to anger management. What happened?

Edited

Re anger management - he used to lose his temper and shout a lot. On one occasion he hit the doorframe in front of our toddler. I told him if he didn't get help I would leave him, and if he ever did anything approaching that when our children were in the house again I would leave him. He spoke to the GP the next day, did a course of CBT he found really challenging but came away with a toolkit for managing his stress he has actually found really useful and there hasn't been another incident of shouting since.

OP posts:
Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 05:47

Agapornis · 29/01/2025 05:41

Don't be another woman resigning herself and her children to a shit situation. They don't have a choice, you do. Set a good example and show that they should only stay in relationships that make them happy.

Don't kid yourself that your children will benefit from living with an angry, grumpy man. I grew up with one, my siblings and I have not forgiven him or my mum.

He's very unlikely to go for 50/50 contact, and your children will vote with their feet the moment they're old enough.

Edit -feel like people are ignoring that he went to anger management. What happened?

Edited

He absolutely will go for 50/50 contact. He loves the kids and has been very hands on with them, used to be part time so he could have a day off with them when in nursery etc. We had a talk about whether we should break up a couple of years ago and he explicitly said he would go for 50/50. And that is the basis for custody arrangements that family courts start from. So they would still be living with an angry grumpy man much of the time, without me to take the edge off. The only question there is whether he is better when I'm not there making him unhappy, but based on how much the kids prefer to be with me I'd guess not. Obviously I can't check this!

As you say when the kids can vote with their feet it might be worth revisiting separation. But for now I can't see how separating will protect them. Children don't always follow their parents' example; my mum walked out on her relationship with my dad, and as he threatened to go after her mental health in court if she didn't give him full custody, she did. As a consequence I would NEVER leave my children, and would do pretty much anything to avoid a situation where they have to be without me 50% of the time.

OP posts:
PeloMom · 29/01/2025 05:45

He needs to be aware and that:

  1. the kids notice
  2. it affected them and before they know it they may start blaming themselves for that
and he has to correct that (by seeking help, faking it, whatever works for him). I’m not the most cheery person but i try as my DC will come and ask ‘what happened that ‘I’ didn’t smile today’ if I’ve had a bad day and would ask if they did anything to upset me.
Agapornis · 29/01/2025 05:41

Don't be another woman resigning herself and her children to a shit situation. They don't have a choice, you do. Set a good example and show that they should only stay in relationships that make them happy.

Don't kid yourself that your children will benefit from living with an angry, grumpy man. I grew up with one, my siblings and I have not forgiven him or my mum.

He's very unlikely to go for 50/50 contact, and your children will vote with their feet the moment they're old enough.

Edit -feel like people are ignoring that he went to anger management. What happened?

theprincessthepea · 29/01/2025 05:39

Is he always like this? Could it just be his personality? I guess there is a difference between being happy and always smiling. Some people just don’t smile a lot. I say this as someone that is genuinely content but I don’t always appear it (mainly because I had terrible teeth when young and didn’t smile and realised I don’t smile as much as I should). That’s just one example. As PP has said - is he depressed? Some people have a gloomy personality.

Kids pick up absolutly everything though. I see why it seems sad but it’s also a truthful observation.

Maybe just check in on him. No grand gesture but a weather check.

Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 05:37

HoppingPavlova · 29/01/2025 05:12

She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much"

Has he ever though? Did he once smile and laugh and has stopped, or he never really did?

Asking as I have one (adult) child that I could probably count on two hands the number of times they have done that. It was pretty much from birth. To the extent that I once got a phone call from their school to be met with an excited teacher on the other end telling me that my child had laughed that day. It’s not that they are depressed or don’t have a sense of humour. For example, after watching it at the cinema, they came home and told me I really had to go see a particular movie they had seen as it was so funny all the way through. They then came with me as they were so keen to see it again. They didn’t laugh once when we watched it, but that’s not to say they didn’t think it was funny, as they kept on about how funny it was. It’s the same for many other things. They experience joy/happiness/mirth but that doesn’t mean having to smile or laugh.

They are my only kid like this, all the rest have always smiled and laughed. Sometimes it’s just an individual thing and there is nothing wrong with the person. I’d really hate for my child to be called many of the names that have been thrown out on here!

I guess I wonder how that works in his relationships where he isn't the dependent. How does he express joy and pleasure in his spouse, or his kids? How do they know they make him happy and bring him joy?

OP posts:
meh2025 · 29/01/2025 05:34

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 28/01/2025 21:43

Our sole purpose in life isn’t to keep men happy you know. He needs to look at himself and try and appear a little more up beat if even an 8 year old notices.

Show quote history

Well put.

Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 05:32

Zanatdy · 29/01/2025 05:24

You can let him know, but in a way in which he knows you’re not getting at him. My DS2 once said something about his dad, my ex, that was quite upsetting, regarding how he spoke to him sometimes. I decided to speak to my ex about it, and he did take it well. In that he knew I had only our son’s wellbeing at heart, and I wasn’t point scoring. He cried when I told him, but he changed. I was glad I spoke to him. It had to be said, it wasn’t information I could ignore once said. My ex was grateful I told him and he was able to make changes.

Your DH may take it badly, but he might think about it afterwards. It sounds like neither of you are happy, and this can have deep rooted effects on DC. My parents stayed together for the kids, and in my late 40’s I am still impacted by living in a household of people always at each other, arguing, fighting. I don’t know why people think it’s better for DC, as mainly it isn’t. And as you can see, DC pick up on things.

I think this is one of those things where it's very hard for the two "sides" to see each others points of view as one only has the one life experience; but my parents did split up, and I am still impacted by the consequences of that - not least that I also grew up in a house with arguing and fighting as my dad and step mums relationship was also not good - people who are bad at relationships don't magically become good at them because they leave the one they're in. And feeling abandoned and displaced and replaced has led to a lot of emotional problems for me. And longer term my mum had health problems and money problems and it was difficult feeling responsible for that as a young adult because she was on her own with no partner, and not being able to seek parental support from my more healthy and financially stable dad to deal with this because they were split and therefore "nothing to do" with each other.

I'm not discounting your experience - just that the alternative you didn't experience would not necessarily have been better than the reality you endured.

As I say it's a choice with no "good" outcome for the kids. Only a very fine weighing up of which bad outcome is the least bad.

OP posts:
Zanatdy · 29/01/2025 05:24

You can let him know, but in a way in which he knows you’re not getting at him. My DS2 once said something about his dad, my ex, that was quite upsetting, regarding how he spoke to him sometimes. I decided to speak to my ex about it, and he did take it well. In that he knew I had only our son’s wellbeing at heart, and I wasn’t point scoring. He cried when I told him, but he changed. I was glad I spoke to him. It had to be said, it wasn’t information I could ignore once said. My ex was grateful I told him and he was able to make changes.

Your DH may take it badly, but he might think about it afterwards. It sounds like neither of you are happy, and this can have deep rooted effects on DC. My parents stayed together for the kids, and in my late 40’s I am still impacted by living in a household of people always at each other, arguing, fighting. I don’t know why people think it’s better for DC, as mainly it isn’t. And as you can see, DC pick up on things.

Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 05:23

Busywithsomething · 29/01/2025 05:06

I think your response depends on your assessment of how long this gloomy phase is likely to continue. Not that you're able to predict the future. But do you think it's possible he's going to snap out of it anytime soon? If so then I'd just try to make light of it in front of kids for now. Your kids are youngish by the sounds.

Sorry I can't help but just thinking about my parents who I knew were considering divorce when I was a teenager but then it did smooth over. In the end they were very happy together. ( Affairs on both sides but divorce would have carried a stigma back in the day). I know they were happy in the end, you just know these things. So could you two end up happy together?

As things are now, I can't imagine us ending up together. The thought of being old and ill and relying on him for physical or emotional support fills me with dread. But we have had periods where we are happier and work better together. We are in the trenches right now (40, two primary age kids, work stresses etc) so there is the possibility that as the pressures on us ease we will be able to shake down together better. He's not (as I frequently have to remind myself) a bad man or a bad father. We just can't give each other what the other needs and have stopped being able/never have been able to emotionally trust each other.

My goal isn't really for the long term - it's to raise and launch the children in as low stress environment as possible. After that I will reassess us as a couple, but honestly without the glue of necessity binding us I can't see it working out. He won't change so unless I'm willing to abnegate myself for life we can't make it work. Although who knows, without the inhibiting factor of keeping things on the rails for the kids, we'll have some real uninhibited ding dong rows and maybe that'll be the making of us! I'll happily abnegate myself for the time being if it will make a better environment for my children overall. The struggle is when you put so much effort in and it's still not enough to make him happy, to the point the kids have noticed, which sort of undermines the whole thing. But I can't ignore the effort he's making either, and how difficult it must be not to be happy and not even know what would make you happy.

OP posts:
HoppingPavlova · 29/01/2025 05:12

She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much"

Has he ever though? Did he once smile and laugh and has stopped, or he never really did?

Asking as I have one (adult) child that I could probably count on two hands the number of times they have done that. It was pretty much from birth. To the extent that I once got a phone call from their school to be met with an excited teacher on the other end telling me that my child had laughed that day. It’s not that they are depressed or don’t have a sense of humour. For example, after watching it at the cinema, they came home and told me I really had to go see a particular movie they had seen as it was so funny all the way through. They then came with me as they were so keen to see it again. They didn’t laugh once when we watched it, but that’s not to say they didn’t think it was funny, as they kept on about how funny it was. It’s the same for many other things. They experience joy/happiness/mirth but that doesn’t mean having to smile or laugh.

They are my only kid like this, all the rest have always smiled and laughed. Sometimes it’s just an individual thing and there is nothing wrong with the person. I’d really hate for my child to be called many of the names that have been thrown out on here!

Busywithsomething · 29/01/2025 05:06

I think your response depends on your assessment of how long this gloomy phase is likely to continue. Not that you're able to predict the future. But do you think it's possible he's going to snap out of it anytime soon? If so then I'd just try to make light of it in front of kids for now. Your kids are youngish by the sounds.

Sorry I can't help but just thinking about my parents who I knew were considering divorce when I was a teenager but then it did smooth over. In the end they were very happy together. ( Affairs on both sides but divorce would have carried a stigma back in the day). I know they were happy in the end, you just know these things. So could you two end up happy together?

Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 04:52

Apileofballyhoo · 28/01/2025 22:48

Maybe your depression is due to living with him. I don't mean that flippantly, I was clinically depressed during a relationship and once we split I no longer needed medication, anxiety and depression just disappeared.

I have considered this possibility, but maybe if he was with someone more like himself he would be less unhappy too. Maybe, maybe... So many maybes. To be fair depression runs in both our families so maybe it was always inevitable. One thing is for sure we shouldn't have had kids together; but they're here now and literally all I want is to make things as safe and comfortable and healthy for them as possible. I just don't know what that is ☹️

OP posts:
Original poster
Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 04:47

Teado · 28/01/2025 23:38

She’s picked up on the bad vibe OP and unless he has Michael Sheen level of acting talent, he won’t be able to “be jolly” for the children and pull the wool over their eyes. It’s not a healthy relationship to be modelling to her. Staying together “for the kids” is often a poor decision. I’m really sorry, I don’t mean to be harsh but I was the child in this scenario in the 1980s and to this day I feel sad for my parents, who were ill-suited and should have parted amicably.

I guess the issue is I was the child in the 80s of parents who split (as they should, they were poorly suited) and life was pretty shit then too and it has led to lots of problems for me. Splitting up opens the door to a lot of unknowns - what if he gets another partner who isn't good to my kids? What if they have more kids and my girls feel replaced/pushed out? What if losing his family life makes him even more miserable and they have to deal with that on their own? And even in the best case having to move between two houses neither of which is your permanent home is destabilising. Breaking up does not guarantee a better situation for my kids, and reduces the amount I can control that/protect them.

I wish there was a "winning" option, but the way I've stacked the deck for them means it's just different flavours of less than ideal.

OP posts:
pizzaHeart · 29/01/2025 00:07

I would try mentioning it to him but not in a challenging way: “You know DD has noticed the other day that you are not smiling much”and then see how he reacts.
I said “try” because in reality I would be very upset about it and worried that it would lead to a quarrel. I would be diplomatic only for 15 minutes and then I would give up and blame him for being f* miserable and upsetting kids.

raysan · 28/01/2025 23:40

You deserve to be happy. People (smart, loving people) have left marriages for less reasons than you have. The two i personally know have been loving life ever since taking the plunge.
You could try the book "too bad to stay, too good to go" (or something like that).

Teado · 28/01/2025 23:38

She’s picked up on the bad vibe OP and unless he has Michael Sheen level of acting talent, he won’t be able to “be jolly” for the children and pull the wool over their eyes. It’s not a healthy relationship to be modelling to her. Staying together “for the kids” is often a poor decision. I’m really sorry, I don’t mean to be harsh but I was the child in this scenario in the 1980s and to this day I feel sad for my parents, who were ill-suited and should have parted amicably.

TunipTheVegimal24 · 28/01/2025 23:28

Yes you could mention it to him. Kids do say a lot of whack stuff though, if your DD is happy and thriving herself, and her and her dad have a nice relationship, I wouldn't think that much into it. My 4yo asked the other day;

"Does everyone die?"
"Yes, everyone dies eventually. It's normal".
"Will I die?"
"Yes lovely, everyone does. You won't for a long time though [God willing and touch wood!!]. Are you worried about it?"
cheerfully "No, just interested!"

Five minutes later, he was talking about Batman.

Unless it becomes a big deal, I'd say to your DD something along the lines of "Yes, Daddy can be a bit gloomy, can't he? Everyone's different. But he loves us, and enjoys us, and there are lots of things he does enjoy. Some people just have grumpier faces, it's nothing to worry about". And leave it at that.

Notgivenuphope · 28/01/2025 23:04

Nothing like kids to give us a kick up the arse with their truthfulness.
It is not your sole responsibility to snap him out of his old - you need to work together if he is willing to make this family work.