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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this was really spiteful

289 replies

Stopbeingsomean · 27/01/2025 22:30

I work as a TA in a primary school and something happened today that made me really sad.

I was working with a group of ten children, split between three adults. We were working on subtraction with this particular group who really struggle with maths.

I heard the other TA tell a child she had done very well. The little girl was really proud of herself and had a huge smile on her face and asked “Am I going to get a sticker Miss?” The TA looked very sternly at her and said “Katie, stickers are given out at my discretion. I decide when to give them. I was actually going to give you one, but as you have asked, unfortunately I am not going to give you one now” Honestly she looked devastated. She’s 7 years old.

AIBU to think this was really spiteful?

YABU - She should not have asked.

YANBU - She deserved a sticker

OP posts:
Stopbeingsomean · 29/01/2025 19:47

Weepixie · 29/01/2025 19:24

Does the TA always make a very long meal out of explaining something to the children?

Sorry OP, not sure what you mean?

OP posts:
StMick · 29/01/2025 19:36

Really, really unpleasant of her. Poor little girl

Weepixie · 29/01/2025 19:24

Does the TA always make a very long meal out of explaining something to the children?

Stopbeingsomean · 29/01/2025 19:22

saraclara · 29/01/2025 18:40

D'oh! I'm an idiot! Ignore me. That's what happens when I'm skim reading Mumsnet threads!
Apologies for my brain blip. You are of course, right. 😳

@saraclara
😂😂

I really did question myself though tbh!

OP posts:
Stopbeingsomean · 29/01/2025 19:20

@gingerlybread

I do think you sound a bit Peter perfect OP, perhaps work together with your team rather than constantly sniping.

I’m not really sure how calling out nasty behaviour is being ‘Peter perfect’. I gave examples of the poor knowledge of last year’s teacher, because you said TA’s must be supervised by a teacher. My point is not all teachers are highly intelligent and some teachers don’t even seem to have the basics.

Thank you for the advice of working with my team without constantly sniping. I mean this is mumsnet, therefore anythjng I have said on here is hardly going to upset my team is it? For your information I did not correct last year’s teacher regarding her mistakes, as that would have been seen as undermining.

I work with a fantastic teacher this year and we have a great relationship. If I ever made a child feel worthless she would have something to say about it.

OP posts:
saraclara · 29/01/2025 18:40

Stopbeingsomean · 29/01/2025 17:46

@saraclara

Honestly I can absolutely promise you elephant’s trunks are not made of ivory.

D'oh! I'm an idiot! Ignore me. That's what happens when I'm skim reading Mumsnet threads!
Apologies for my brain blip. You are of course, right. 😳

Stopbeingsomean · 29/01/2025 17:46

saraclara · 29/01/2025 00:14

Elephant's risks ARE made of ivory though.
https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/what-is-ivory-and-why-does-it-belong-on-elephants#:~:text=Why%20do%20elephants%20have%20ivory,trees%20to%20eat%2C%20and%20defense.
And most primary teachers don't have maths or English A levels. I don't.

The other stuff is shocking though.

Edited

@saraclara

Honestly I can absolutely promise you elephant’s trunks are not made of ivory.

OP posts:
Twaddlepip · 29/01/2025 06:26

That TA has an inferiority complex and is using struggling seven year olds to get her jollies. Lovely.

Agapornis · 29/01/2025 05:09

saraclara · 29/01/2025 00:14

Elephant's risks ARE made of ivory though.
https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/what-is-ivory-and-why-does-it-belong-on-elephants#:~:text=Why%20do%20elephants%20have%20ivory,trees%20to%20eat%2C%20and%20defense.
And most primary teachers don't have maths or English A levels. I don't.

The other stuff is shocking though.

Edited

I know it's late but you are confusing trunks and tusks. OP wrote trunks. The nimble, meaty, finger-like nose-lip combo they use to put food in their mouth with, pretty unique to elephants (and tapirs). Not made of ivory.

gingerlybread · 29/01/2025 00:49

@Stopbeingsomean TAs "knowing" as much as teachers has absolutely no bearing here. Teachers have a standard qualification and are used to feedback. They are in a profession. A TA can literally walk in off the street with no experience. TAs need to be supervised and directed by qualified teachers otherwise- they would be teachers and be paid accordingly.
We don't have this bullshit in Scotland where all teachers need maths, English and undergo a rigorous probation period. We have assistants but they are not expected to do anything that teachers haven't planned and organised.
As for grammar and punctuation there are many dyslexic teachers and assistants- as long as they are aware and use spellchecker etc it's not a problem.
I do think you sound a bit Peter Perfect OP, perhaps work together with your team rather than constantly sniping.

warmheartcoldfeet · 29/01/2025 00:19

It's people like that that fuck up our kids confidence and a few years later everyone goes 'we've no idea what happened, she used to really enjoy school'.

saraclara · 29/01/2025 00:14

Stopbeingsomean · 28/01/2025 23:58

Tbh good TA’s shouldn’t need supervising. I definitely think some of our TA’s know as much as some teachers. Last year I had to explain to my NQT that words that end in S don’t necessarily need apostrophes. She had written sweet’s. She then told the class that the apostrophes went like this:
have’nt, did’nt etc because the apostrophe split the word have not and did not. She had never heard the word apartheid and had no idea what it meant and thought elephant’s trunks were made of ivory. She has no A levels in maths or English either.

Elephant's risks ARE made of ivory though.
https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/what-is-ivory-and-why-does-it-belong-on-elephants#:~:text=Why%20do%20elephants%20have%20ivory,trees%20to%20eat%2C%20and%20defense.
And most primary teachers don't have maths or English A levels. I don't.

The other stuff is shocking though.

B2B25 · 29/01/2025 00:12

Stopbeingsomean · 29/01/2025 00:00

So today, I am happy to report that Katie got two stickers from me, just because…

Love this both for you and Katie! Star

Stopbeingsomean · 29/01/2025 00:00

So today, I am happy to report that Katie got two stickers from me, just because…

OP posts:
Stopbeingsomean · 28/01/2025 23:58

gingerlybread · 28/01/2025 08:02

This is what happens when you have "teaching assistants" who aren't qualified or properly supervised because the actual teacher is not trained to supervise adults but to teach.
This person is modelling her teaching on her own experience as a child and maybe what she thinks a teacher should be like. She's probably never had intensive training or feedback and has just been posted with a group of kids in a classroom and left to get on with it.
Maybe she doesn't realise that once you start with stickers they become ridiculously important but also lose value, because they become expected and as per this post if children don't get them for every single thing then it becomes an issue. Of course she should have just given the sticker but will there ever come a point when someone says " You're too old for stickers now Katie?"
This TA needs much more training and the school needs more teachers.
I think stickers should be kept for the dentist!!!

Tbh good TA’s shouldn’t need supervising. I definitely think some of our TA’s know as much as some teachers. Last year I had to explain to my NQT that words that end in S don’t necessarily need apostrophes. She had written sweet’s. She then told the class that the apostrophes went like this:
have’nt, did’nt etc because the apostrophe split the word have not and did not. She had never heard the word apartheid and had no idea what it meant and thought elephant’s trunks were made of ivory. She has no A levels in maths or English either.

OP posts:
Morecoffeeforme · 28/01/2025 18:04

Crackanut · 27/01/2025 23:20

That's absolutely ridiculous over a sticker. "Raising bloody hell"? No wonder teachers are leaving in their droves.

of course it’s not just the sticker. It’s the way she’s speaking to a child who’s struggling to learn.

i dread to think how much the poor child’s confidence has been knocked.

where is your empathy?

Yalta · 28/01/2025 14:56

For me who has always used logic (to the extreme).
If I was told I wasn’t getting a reward after all the effort I had put in to the work, just because I asked IF this meant I would be getting a reward

I wouldn’t bother making an effort again.

In my mind if I put in a lot of effort doing something and that equals no sticker

or I don’t put in any effort and sit back, chat, and mess around doing what ever I wanted also equals no stickers

Then why would I make the effort.

In school I would also talk round a few other children to this way of thinking and if this teacher has form for this sort of thing then she would be going home each night tearing her hair out because her quiet subservient children she had lauded over were now a bunch of children who made their lives a misery and who couldn’t be bribed to behave as they didn’t believe her.

Even as a child I would think of people as equals, no matter what their station or age
I put it down to being on market stalls and serving customers from a very young age. I also learned to read people and know who was looking to buy instead of wasting effort with someone who was just window shopping.

Bewareofthisonetoo · 28/01/2025 14:31

It is really wearing when the kids constantly ask for stickers or other rewards.
I am a teacher and if I praise someone for a good answer etc, repeatedly the. Get asked ‘can I have a Praise?’
I tell them that Praises are at my discretion and I won’t award one if asked.
parents should encourage intrinsic rather than extrinsic satisfaction, but so many are too ignorant or lazy to bother to encourage that.

JSMill · 28/01/2025 14:15

gingerlybread · 28/01/2025 08:02

This is what happens when you have "teaching assistants" who aren't qualified or properly supervised because the actual teacher is not trained to supervise adults but to teach.
This person is modelling her teaching on her own experience as a child and maybe what she thinks a teacher should be like. She's probably never had intensive training or feedback and has just been posted with a group of kids in a classroom and left to get on with it.
Maybe she doesn't realise that once you start with stickers they become ridiculously important but also lose value, because they become expected and as per this post if children don't get them for every single thing then it becomes an issue. Of course she should have just given the sticker but will there ever come a point when someone says " You're too old for stickers now Katie?"
This TA needs much more training and the school needs more teachers.
I think stickers should be kept for the dentist!!!

There is some truth in this. I am a teaching assistant and I have been involved in various roles in education over the years eg dyslexia tutor, ESL support. I have done lots of courses, workshops, seminars because I am really passionate about it. However it is perfectly easy to get a job without any kind of qualifications and as there's no budget for training any more, there's no opportunity for people joining to improve themselves. I have some colleagues who are lovely but haven't a clue about behaviour management. In my last school, there was a woman who thought it was a good idea to blow a whistle in the classroom during wet play in order to get the noise level down! She was most annoyed when the head teacher told her to stop.

Another problem these days is the increasing reliance on HLTAs. In the same school, a woman joined us. It was her first TA role. By the end of the first term, she'd managed to complete an online HLTA course which required no classroom observation. Our head teacher was desperate for someone to do PPA cover so she got her to teach my class one afternoon a week. I increasingly hated the experience as she didn't know how to manage the class and wouldn't listen to my advice about their normal routine. I was off for a few weeks and when I returned I realised I couldn't put up with the chaos anymore. I handed in my notice. I have since heard she has refused to cover that class, blaming the behaviour of the children. Funny how she was the only person to have a problem with them.

Crackanut · 28/01/2025 08:08

Stopbeingsomean · 27/01/2025 23:32

Do you not think this was spiteful though @Crackanut?

Yeah I do but raising 'bloody hell' with the head as that poster said is really over the top.

gingerlybread · 28/01/2025 08:02

This is what happens when you have "teaching assistants" who aren't qualified or properly supervised because the actual teacher is not trained to supervise adults but to teach.
This person is modelling her teaching on her own experience as a child and maybe what she thinks a teacher should be like. She's probably never had intensive training or feedback and has just been posted with a group of kids in a classroom and left to get on with it.
Maybe she doesn't realise that once you start with stickers they become ridiculously important but also lose value, because they become expected and as per this post if children don't get them for every single thing then it becomes an issue. Of course she should have just given the sticker but will there ever come a point when someone says " You're too old for stickers now Katie?"
This TA needs much more training and the school needs more teachers.
I think stickers should be kept for the dentist!!!

CarolinaWren · 28/01/2025 04:42

MrsFrumble · 27/01/2025 22:42

Ugh. Sounds like she was on a power-trip! But want kind of weirdo adult needs to crush the spirit of a 7 year old to feel important?

Does the other TA have form for this sort of thing? I think you’d be justified in asking them if it was really necessary to respond like that.

I agree. Unfortunately bullies tend to be attracted to jobs where they have access to children, the elderly and other vulnerable populations.

Nonaynevernomore · 28/01/2025 04:32

DelphiniumBlue · 27/01/2025 23:12

It’s not spiteful, it’s consistency. You can’t give rewards to every kid who asks for one, they should all know that . They get given one when an adult thinks they deserve one. Otherwise you get the bolder ones asking all the time and the shy ones not putting g themselves forward.
Thats not to say any reward system comes without problems, and you often get the situation where eg ‘ star of the week’ is not in fact given on the basis of merit, but on the basis of whose turn it is on the rota. It’s all a bit of a nonsense, and as you can see, even the giving out of stickers can cause problems.

The only good thing about your post is it’s in the vast minority!

Don’t give out stickers for achievements if she thinks it causes issues. But that’s not what she done, she’s set up a system that encourages a child to achieve well and be rewarded with a sticker, the crushes their spirit because of a request that the spiteful TA could pull her up on.

It’s 2025, not bloody 1950 in a convent school taught by spiteful nuns.

WiddlinDiddlin · 28/01/2025 04:25

DelphiniumBlue · 27/01/2025 23:12

It’s not spiteful, it’s consistency. You can’t give rewards to every kid who asks for one, they should all know that . They get given one when an adult thinks they deserve one. Otherwise you get the bolder ones asking all the time and the shy ones not putting g themselves forward.
Thats not to say any reward system comes without problems, and you often get the situation where eg ‘ star of the week’ is not in fact given on the basis of merit, but on the basis of whose turn it is on the rota. It’s all a bit of a nonsense, and as you can see, even the giving out of stickers can cause problems.

Rubbish, it's very clearly spiteful!

She didn't demand, ie. 'Im getting a sticker!' and she didn't actually ask for a sticker ie. 'Can I have a sticker?'.

She asked if she was getting a sticker - the answer could have been 'yes - you've done really well' or 'no, you need to repeat this again/couple more times then you'll earn a sticker'.

Either would have been constructive.

Telling her 'you woud have but now you've demanded one you can't' is both inaccurate as she did not demand she asked if she had done enough to earn one, and spiteful, because she didn't actually know she'd earned a sticker until she was told it was being taken away!

This is a fantastic way to make a reinforcement system highly aversive.

At that age half the time kids are being told 'if you don't ask, you don't get' to get them to communicate, speak up, offer answers and advocate for themselves.

And then the rest of the time being slapped down for doing just that!

Auldlang · 28/01/2025 04:17

pinkdelight · 28/01/2025 00:15

As in, let's try to keep some perspective and not make this extremely minor issue into something that means TA should not be a TA and child not getting a sticker will send them spiralling for life. Many unfair things will occur, coping with them is good.

Sure but snubbing and knocking a kid down for being proud of herself (especially a girl) is the kind of shitty 90s stuff I'm glad we don't do any more. What's the point, to teach her never to have a good opinion of her own work or advocate for herself? Just because kids need to learn to cope with unfairness does not justify spitefulness on the part of an adult who should know a whole lot better. They're not the same issue.