To think UK jobs are on the whole badly paid and IDK how a lot of people are managing

To be frank, it's the effects of the financial crisis, an economy that is stuck in a low productivity loop (zero incentive to invest if you can get lots of low skilled workers) and a lot of money burned during Covid. The state was very generous to those who got furlough, gave out some very dubious grants and spent a lot of money that it really couldn't afford to place on the next generation.

It's going to be hard from here digging ourselves out of this. This is why people are already disappointed with the Labour Party and the front bench look stressed out. There is no money without growth. The idea that we can run services better and it will all be ok is not going to cut it.

Are taxes THAT much higher here though…I feel like it’s much of a muchness when you consider we don’t pay council tax or water rates.

Well you may not pay council tax or water rates, but we do. At 2024 rates, we pay £3500 in council tax and £1600 water rates. Our house is spacious and nice but there are two older people living in it, not causing the police any trouble, or educating children. And we are pensioners, who have saved from the last 38 years of self-employment, so we still pay tax on every penny we get from our pensions above £12,570 at the same rate except for NIC, which is (not) dedicated to a state pension fund. We are also paying the rent for a room in the SE while our DC gets a start in life on their desired career. Yes, we are extremely fortunate to be in this position, and not to worry about the electricity bill each month. I am not suggesting that the state should do more for us, but DH has an SME collecting VAT, paying NIC and corporation tax, auto-enrolment pensions dues, and then paying personal income taxes on anything else. There's a huge amount of admin cost to pay the accountants who work out who we pay and how much. Our tiny business supports seven families, and no one is paid less than £4 more than NMW, although we'd like to find a couple of apprentices who would probably start on less, at 17 years old.

I do think MN's view that being in business is evil quite confronting. Most people would not have a roof over their head were it not for people who understand making a profit.

It never ceases to amaze me that so many Mners are happy for the children they claim to love to be cared for by someone they hold in such contempt.

Agree. The disparity in salaries is noticeable. My current job pays above the national average at around £40k. But really with the career progression isn't going to increase by much. I could spend another 15 years in my role and might be lucky to get to around the £56k mark.

For comparison with my current experience level my starting salary in the US jobs would be around $115k (approx £92k).

I've seen people mention groceries but really from the time I've spent over there, it seems roughly comparable. Quality meat is cheaper than our basic/budget meat. But then our fruit and veg is cheaper but theirs is more.

Houses, unless im hcol areas like Cali, NY etc are pretty reasonable.
Going through the hell which is the immigration process (Sleepy Joe strikes again), but closed on a house last year for what works out at £138k. I currently live in an area in the UK below the national average for house prices.. but the same size house, level of decor/updates/modernisations, lot size would set you back around £450k.

Bills can work out comparible. Some work out cheaper, others work out slightly higher. So averages out to about the same.

Although the lack of the NHS will be a big miss, most jobs will provide health insurance that provides cover for most bits and yes the monthly fee can be a bit salty, but the lower tax kind of helps out that difference.

My DC’s former childminder rented a 3 bed house via the council and paid a few hundred pounds a month. The privately rented houses on either side of her were £1900 - £2500 PCM. She also complained about her rent despite the fact it was minuscule compared to her neighbours and the fact the council took a while to upgrade her kitchen😂 This was in London.

Tbh I never really worked out how she qualified for council housing but I don’t k know how it works. She owned a holiday home abroad and her DH worked full time (for the council!).

Are taxes THAT much higher here though…I feel like it’s much of a muchness when you consider we don’t pay council tax or water rates.

America has higher salaries but it is by no means a perfect place to live! The following reasons:

• they get barely any time off work
• aggressive/over competitive work expectations
• crap maternity and paternity provisions
• poor public transport/over reliance on cars
• reliance on private insurance for healthcare. You can pay a 5 grand co-pay to have a baby.
• huge health issues - obesity, drug epidemic.
• lack of access to abortions
• guns & gun crime

• they have donald trump as president

Countries like Australia are also incredibly expensive. DSil emigrated there and has a highly paid job & has the same trouble affording housing as she had in London. Food there is more expensive.

As well as shareholders, so many companies are owned by private equity now, profit is maximised while costs including salaries driven down. And lots of retail businesses have high rents which drive their prices up while the corporate landlords make big profits.
Assets and non-earned wealth are taxed much less than income but any attempt at even minor changes to this results in an outcry from the wealthy including media owners.

Rent
Childcare

Hugely expensive and keep a check on what people can spend in the wider economy.

We had 14 years of a Tory government supressing living standards for ordinary people whilst increasing the wealth of the 1%. That is why things feel so painful for the rest of us

Capitalism failed in 2008.

Since then, perhaps even before, most countries are insolvent. If you knew of a business that could only pay its running costs by endless borrowing, you would say it was bankrupt and should be closed down. Well, that's what has happened to most Western Countries. Unsustainable debt, falling tax revenues and a stagnant or contracting economy

I think there are only two options.

Worldwide write off of all national debt. This can only work if EVERY country, literally EVERY one, were in unanimous agreement. Followed by global refinancing. The public would have to accept that the write off ONLY applies to nation debt, not personal. This would allow broke countries like the UK to invest billions on capital projects, invest in business, provide funding for

Another solution could be the establishment of a new currency, not underpinned by debt.

How you could do either is beyond me.

Nurseries (rightly, funding is a pittance) just put up their hourly prices for the hours over and above the funded ones. So the difference for many who got funding at 2 instead of 3 is minimal. It worked out well for someone like me who only worked 21 hours a week when DS was 3 to 4 but full timers were stung.

As for the rest - it's the housing costs that are the killer. And I don't understand people like a PP's coworker who comment their mortgage is £400 a month so why is someone else paying £1000pcm. It's not rent. Everyone has a different loan amount and term as well as interest rate. I could pay £400 a month if I only had £65k left over 25 years at 5.3%.

Just leaving this here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5198602-national-minimum-wage-increase

It's rough, isn't it? I work in marketing and will be be lucky to ever make more than £35k, and my job is so stressful and demanding. I also have a Master's degree. I often wonder how I ended up here. There are few jobs available in my region and most salaries are around £25k. It's awful.

Yes, and also I think that a lot of the time the additional costs have gone up. I know that what we paid for DS in private nursery 2 days a week seems to be a lot less than what people are paying for the same now, even if they are able to benefit from some of the free hours.

I'd also argue that without those free hours, childcare was just completely and totally exorbitant so I hope that some people really are benefiting! It is tricky though as a lot of the time those hours are term time only, school hours only, which makes working really difficult. DS' BF's mum had this problem - she could get the free hours which was great, but she had to still pick up at 3pm and find holiday care and it was a nightmare for her.

There's definitely some crazy extremes out there my friend who's house has three stories and three bedrooms and rents from housing association was moaning her rent went up to 600 pound. I got out my phone and showed her how much a similar house would cost on Rightmove in this area (not even anywhere near London) yeah 1600 a whole grand more. She never moaned since 😂

a) 15 hours from 9 months doesn’t start till September. It’s currently 15 hours from age 2.

b) it’s often nowhere near 15 hours. So at one local nursery the standard fee is £2,300 but £1,970 after 15 hours are applied. So only 15% of the cost.

c) the costs have all gone up like crazy to cover the shortfall the funding leaves plus higher employment costs.

d) Not all nurseries are offering the additional 15 hours.

Mine are school aged, but I think it's because the 'free' hours aren't actually free because the government doesn't pay enough to cover the actual costs, and not everywhere offers them anyway.

There's also the issue of wraparound and holiday care for DC who are too old for the free hours. That's dearer than it was.

I'm interested in people saying childcare costs are high. I was under the impression you now get 15 hours free if you work for kids from 9 months of age and get 30 hours from aged three. I know you may have pay some top up but when my kids were young we only got 15 hours free and it was from aged three so surely you are better off now than a few years ago regarding childcare costs.

I used to live on a street with a mix of housing association and private properties.

The tenants who had been there 30 years were paying about £400.

To rent one from a private landlord was about £4,000.

To buy one, you were looking at about £1m.

Now what was quite nice was that this meant quite a mix of people - but those who had been there longest were often single occupiers who had working class occupations, on these very low rents. Then there was the ‘newer’ tenants / buyers who were senior professionals raising families in them and shelling out many thousand a month to be there.

These kinds of extremes seem quite common between generations in London!

This.

Someone has got to be benefitting in the difference between the high costs being charged and the low wages that are paid to those doing the work to provide that service.

It’s not a case of blaming them. It’s a case of blaming our braindead, corrupt, incompetent establishment government.

We earn a LOT (over £200k pre tax) but our mortgage, childcare fees are very high indeed and we pay for private therapy for a SEN child. We’d never dream of a skiing holiday or a week in Greece etc as £5k+ is too much for us to burn on one trip. Things like paying to go to the zoo, or coffee ought also don’t happen, but that’s not our idea of fun anyway. We drive an ancient Seat and also never buy clothes. We’re pretty satisfied though. You’d have thought earning what we do we’d have a nice lifestyle, but it’s not what you earn as much as what assets you have inherited and whether you have a SEN child or need to rely on full time private childcare. Lots of inherited wealth around us, and that’s not taxed nearly as heavily as earned income so our neighbours earning less than us are much richer.

The majority of the population aren't facing those jumps, is a big part of the reason. It's only private renters and those who have remortgaged and/or bought their first property recently. Of course there are knock on effects we all feel, but speaking as someone who took a 7 year fix in 2021, it makes a huge difference when your mortgage doesn't reflect rate rises.

Also snapshots of people's spending behaviour can be deceptive. Sometimes, people who are consuming might still be belt tightening while they do it. People who are out and about can still be choosing cheaper options.