To expect schools aim for higher than average?

I think mastery is done poorly, though it's hard to know what the intention is with it and whether it can really be everything for the most capable children. If they have fully grasped a concept, there must be a point when they could move on. In maths it often seems to be throwing some wordy questions at children and asking for explanations. My super mathsy DD2 wasn't great with this as she struggles with writing. She could do it all pretty easily aloud, but you'd be hard pressed to get her to actually do it in her book.

And often there doesn't seem to be much planned beyond those wordy questions. For DD1 that wasn't a problem, she would go and help other children, which really deepens your understanding. DD2 would probably just chat and distract other children. For her, an open ended nrich task might be more suitable. What really works for her is smaller classes with a teacher specifically planning her work and having time to discuss it with her. She's getting that at an independent school now, but sadly that isn't available to most children.

When I started teaching 15 years ago we did differentiate lessons so more able children were challenged. When the curriculum changed in 2014, the focus was on ‘mastery’ and keeping the class together so no one was left behind, and pushing capable children was frowned upon. Instead they should be stretched ‘sideways’ and given ‘rich problems’ to solve.

This. It's extremely noticeable. It's actually very sad and punishes the brighter poorer child who does not get the opportunity to achieve their true potential.

The well off bright child with well educated parents gets taken to chess club, learns piano, is given challenge at home.

The curriculum is different now. Aiming higher in topics doesn't always give the depth needed for developing good understanding.

You said earlier the school had concerns and worked with your dc2. Now you're saying they did nothing and you did it all at home. What's the truth?

Times change and with the increase in teachers workload from pastoral concerns, the insanity of 20 different worksheets has thankfully ended.

This is where parents come in I think. I felt my children could be pushed further, I've found that teachers are really supportive if you open a dialogue with them and ask about gaps and what support you can be doing at home, the more you do at home the more it supports what they're doing at school.

Although I will add this is something I did more from high school age, primary school is more about building confidence with learning in my view, you don't want to stifle them.

Yes of course you are right.
But most classes with 30 children it isn't an option to go above average.
It's tbh 'forget about it' for the smart kids. They are more less on their own unless you are lucky with a state grammar school place at 11 or can pay for a public school.

If the input and whole class work is something a child could do in their sleep, then it is irrelevant to that higher ability child. This genuinely does happen, particularly in maths, where the spiral curriculum can be too tightly spiralled for some children. Both of my DDs have been allowed to skip this bit of some maths lessons as their teachers have understood this.

Having seen my younger DD be graded as "at expected level, school's job done", when she is very able but was putting in no effort and was very bored, made me wonder about how many children are like this but without engaged parents to advocate for them.

Only in a few subjects.

I think schools would argue that they’re not and would use language more like ‘on target’. But the same schools say they have ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ behaviour and that a lie lol

Hear hear

Speaking as a teacher- of course they should, I would hate for any child to not get the most out of my lessons. I will try targeted questioning, extension tasks and advice as a marker for the exam board, all so I can make sure that anyone (at any level) who can achieve higher, has the vehicle to do so.

Speaking as a human being- I'm trying my flipping best but there are 32 of them in there. At any one time, 10 of them are just looking for an opportunity to chat, turn around, throw a pencil at a friend etc. so I need to keep my eye on them. I also have 3-7 of them which an EHCP so I need to keep an eye on making sure they have their adaptations. I also have 4 of them who aren't EHCP but have some SEND needs so I need to keep an eye on them, they may need some extra help. I've got 2 very quiet ones, they're very capable but rarely ask for help so I need to go over and keep an eye on any worries they have. Also, I've got 1 who was escorted in half way through the lesson due to truanting, so I need to keep an eye on her to make sure she knows what we're doing. Then, just to add to the fun, there's a wasp in the room or a detention slip arrives at the door, or (god forbid) it's started snowing. Now I need to keep an eye to ensure all hell doesn't break loose.
I've only got 2 eyes and they're shattered! I promise that we're trying our best.

I agree. I was so eager to please until about year 4 but then switched off and became really naughty & disruptive because I was bored stiff. The boredom & frustration actually made me deeply unhappy. I had a brother 3 years older and since I was little had joined in with him and his work so I was already confident with what school were teaching.

Teaching how to tell the time or how to do column multiplication to kids who were confident in it (for example) just isn't doing anything for them. Totally agree a teacher can't teach 30 different lessons at once but that doesn't mean it's not awful for the kids that have to see it and their parents watching them waste hours every day not learning anything.

I fully support streaming because my mental health as a child rlly suffered from being ignored at school and told (quite literally once but often implied) to sit and wait for others to catch up.

I'm aware it's not a popular opinion but that's my experience & it isn't the responsibility of the more able children to give up their potential to help the less able. There should be appropriate streaming where possible so every child can be given the tools to reach their potential.

When I started teaching 15 years ago we did differentiate lessons so more able children were challenged. When the curriculum changed in 2014, the focus was on ‘mastery’ and keeping the class together so no one was left behind, and pushing capable children was frowned upon. Instead they should be stretched ‘sideways’ and given ‘rich problems’ to solve.

The last 7 years I’ve been in private education where we continued to stretch beyond current year group curriculum but I’m now back in state on supply and as far as I can see nothing is done to stretch the most capable. I had kids finish the task with 20 minutes to go and the next task was ‘help other people’. Unfortunately, if I as the teacher have failed to help a student understand something, it’s unlikely a 10 year old will do a better job, and the helper gets little out of explaining how to do something they could do with ease. This backs up what I’ve seen with my own very capable child in state education, she is just taught things she can already do and is bored.

its both an issue with funding/staffing and with the way the national curriculum is at present.

Well at least your struggling DD got help - mine were always not bad enough there were worse in class to actually get help or if we wait they may catch up as they are summer born that was especially thrown at DS - so we had to do bulk of support work at home.

I think ideally there should be more differential teaching but some classes/schools that can be really hard with resources they have.

Speaking as a teacher, I can inform you that schools are much more 'one-size-fits-all' than any teacher would like to admit to parents- sorry.

So the school put in support that has worked to get your child up to average. She can now participate in the whole class work without the support. Yet you're complaining that she's not aiming any higher. Are you serious?

Of course they'll want her to improve more and more, and by staying on average her whole school career, she will still be making progress.

Exactly. But the input and whole class work isn't irrelevant to the higher achieving as OP seems to think. Scaffolding for weaker children doesn't take time away from the stronger in the moment (it bloody does in teachers' own free time...) And the independent work should be something all children do to their own ability level. I don't see how the higher ability can possibly be the ones at a disadvantage!

My dc has intervention because they are above average, schools should aim to differentiate.

They aim as high as they can within funding constraints.

A class of 22 with a teacher and 2 TAs is far from the norm. This is impossible to achieve in a class of 30+ with just a teacher.

It's quite ignorant to assume she's waiting for the less able during most of her lesson time. Learning isn't linear and she will need to practise to actually retain things and develop.

You obviously don't know how averages work if you think everyone should be trying to be above. I think the intelligent Michael Gove once had the same bright idea.

And I'd stop worrying about national average. You have no idea what the average even is in her class. And the chances are: it's her!

It is hard to tailor the lessons, but not impossible. My daughters class of 22, is split into 4 ability groups, known by colours so it's not so obvious to the children who is highest/lowest. They have a teacher and 2 TA's, who work with 3 of the 4 groups on levels appropriate ability in maths, writing and reading. 4th group has 'quiet choosing time' and then they rotate. The progress is extraordinary, my youngest, who was expected to struggle due to having brain damage and summer born, is now working a year above ability in reading and maths.

Primary schools are often mixed ability classes.

If you have one daughter who is just above average the teaching should be aimed pretty much at her. If the whole class is below average and so she is very good for her class ask for extensions or challenge work.

Secondaries mostly set by ability so students are taught at a pace they can cope with.