To think that wolf whistling wasn't such a bad thing?

Even if you found it flattering.. with these kind of things we need a hard line on it, so none of it is acceptable. Because if you say "well X is okay, but Y is a bit unacceptable and inappropriate" that gives an unclear message, and there's a lot of both thick men in the world, and men who aren't thick but will always push boundaries.
It all needs to go in the bin

I think they think that they were lucky enough to get the nice, respectable pervs men who were merely expressing appreciation for their superior beauty, whereas we sadly got the obviously very tiny minority of wrong’uns… whereas like you say, chances are the same men whistling at them were the ones whistling at kids in school uniform.

1. You can't decide it was harmless for every other woman/girl.

1. You have no idea what those men did or didn't do outside of that 1 minute interaction.

I feel a bit sorry reading the thread that there are woman who thought/think being groped or commented on was/is a marker of how attractive they were or their worth. I’m not sure how that narrative holds and doesn’t feel a bit less certain hearing stories about how - in all likelihood the exact same men - made comments to children or were intimidating to other woman, or was a precursor to assault.

Im not trying to change anyone’s view but I do find it odd that hearing that doesn’t give pause for thought.

It wasn't my argument. Merely my experience. I'm afraid I don't give you permission to re write my experience to fit your narrative. I wasn't intimidated by it.

But I didn't do that.
You compared seeing an attractive man in a bar, getting his attention and talking to him with a man catcalling a woman.
I simply pointed out they aren't the same. Because they aren't.

I didn't say you had to be intimidated about it being catcalled or ask you to change the narrative about your experiences. It wasn't commenting on your experiences at all! 😂

You did say how you felt which is why I responded.
Am I not allowed I respond?

Bravo you for not giving Wolf Whistles a seconds thought, you are so cool.

It wasn't my argument. Merely my experience. I'm afraid I don't give you permission to re write my experience to fit your narrative. I wasn't intimidated by it.

Overall I'm glad it's not such a thing anymore as so many found it so unpleasant. I didn't, that's all.

Nighty night!

Do you feel differently now you're older? I just find it really difficult to understand how women would see the attention of these types as a compliment. I remember even when we were young, my friends and I would feel very put out at the idea these horrible, crude older men would have the audacity to think they had a chance of our attention. All the issues of sexism and objectification aside, I've always thought it was actually insulting in "Are you kidding me..?" type way.

I found it upsetting and intimidating to be wolf whistled etc as a young girl/woman.
My dd (20s) hates it.

I don't believe that objectification is a good thing, it's dehumanising.

And of course they didn't know me. Obviously they weren't cat calling my personality.
But then I guess I'd equally objectify almost every single man I'd stare at in a bar, if that's what we are calling it. You look at someone you're attracted to, you try to get their attention, you talk, if you like their personality too then maybe something comes of it. I don't think it's objectification, it's just part of the dance of human attraction.

There's a fundamental flaw in this argument.
The very nature of cat calling means it never progresses to talking and finding out if they like our personality.
Women who are cat called don't stop and have a conversation with the men doing it and the men certainly don't expect that to happen.
It is ONLY about objectification because it's based on looks alone.

You're kidding yourself if you think is anything else.

I remember feeling cringe if it happened and cringe if it didn't. How messed up is that! The well of male and female relations does seems to have become a bit poisoned, though.

These threads always follow the same pattern. Always end up with posters being nasty to each other. Each ‘side’ disbelieving the other’s experience.

Pressed send by accident. Meant to say:

You think that a 40 something bloke on a roofing shift wolf whistles an 18 year old girl he doesn't know, along with his colleagues, as part of the 'dance of human attraction' Not because they are objectifying her?

It's the same root belief that men are entitled to do what they want to women's bodies. Some men will catcall (you like that) some men will rape (obviously you don't like that). Both actions are the actions of male entitlement. If we allow, accept or preen in the face of male entitlement it continues. We call it out now, we say it's wrong

@dairydebris

I don't think it's objectification, it's just part of the dance of human attraction.

You think that a 40 something bloke on a roofing shift wolf whistles an 18 year old girl he doesn't know

No, not my vagina. My youth, my body, my time, my chat. They weren't getting any of that.
And of course they didn't know me. Obviously they weren't cat calling my personality.
But then I guess I'd equally objectify almost every single man I'd stare at in a bar, if that's what we are calling it. You look at someone you're attracted to, you try to get their attention, you talk, if you like their personality too then maybe something comes of it. I don't think it's objectification, it's just part of the dance of human attraction.

@stonefall101
I’m just saying how I felt.

Is this not allowed on mumsnet or do we have to all follow a party line?

The wolf whistling builders were nothing in comparison to some of the vicious comments on here!!

Lucky you!
You are amazing.
Bravo

But wasn't JL's whole point that weak women nowadays report these things? Wouldn't telling the bar staff fall under reporting it and therefore means you are not tough and you just slap the guy and carry on and watch him do it the next woman/accept the consequences if he decided to hit you back?

Yes, let's go back to Jack the Ripper days, how fun

Jesus Christ.

Wolf whistling was awful, being touched up was awful, having to 'escape' predatory men in nightclubs was awful. Being told 'cheer up love it might never happen' was also awful. I hated it, always having to be on my guard.

We’re going round in circles here. Hope you feel better soon. Not least because it means we won’t be subjected to threads like this 😁

maybe I’m very shallow, but to be honest I never analysed it or gave it a moment’s thought two minutes later!

I never enjoyed the whistling and certainly not the hand on the leg, bum being pinched. It never felt flattering or complimentary to be, at all.
That being said, I would much prefer to go back to the UK as it was in the past because I think it was safer for women. The whistling etc was essentially harmless and most of ther perpetrators probably would never dream of attacking or assaulting a woman. Now the country is full of animals looking to rape us, grooming gangs etc.

Me and my friends were regularly shouted at by men in vans when walking to and from school. Just because you weren't doesn't mean others weren't🙄