To think that wolf whistling wasn't such a bad thing?

For the tenth time, not all areas have mem whistling at kids. Some women have neither experienced that nor witnessed it - ever. In my neck of the woods men only whistled at WOMEN, that's 18 plus. Thankfully, they weren't interested in kids.

Agreed. I never needed to be validated by some twat on a building site. I am, and always was, perfectly capable of putting men in their place but having to do it practically every time I went anywhere as a young woman was utterly tedious.

In 'The talented Mr Ripley' there's a scene in an Italian square where the men are very vocally appreciative of the passing women. But that is all they are doing. They remain seated. I could put up with that - if they want to look like hooting loons, let them. But men don't behave like that outside of the movies. Whistling is how the most awful scenarios begin. The following, grabbing, groping, up to and including taharrush gamea. So no, I don't feel ok about cat-calling. It so often is the precursor to horror.

I assume that confidence was born from nothing bad happening to you at the hands/of men boys?

Exactly this. I got wolf-whistled and harassed 10 x more when I was a young teenager in a school uniform or t-shirt and hipster trousers than when I was a much more attractive woman wearing more sexually attractive clothes in my early 20s. That’s what’s so gross about it. I remember at college when I was 16 having to take a massive 10 min detour for two years to walk to my chemistry class just to avoid a group of 18 year old men hanging around the woodwork/engineering classrooms at the entrance of the science block simply because they would stare so disgustingly and make obnoxious comments.

The men who whistle at grown women are no different from the men who whistle at children because they are the same men!
Building sites aren't separated between those who leer exclusively at adults and others who leer at kids.
The reason these women have never seen, or heard of ,men whistling at children is because they probably don't do it when another adult is in the vicinity. They know they'd get slaughtered so they whistle and leer at the young girls when they're alone

She also said... "I think we were a little bit tougher then. Somebody put their hand on your leg, you didn’t feel affronted and report it. You’d give them a slap.”

Well if why would you slap them if you don’t feel affronted? 🙄

Wouldn’t have been any point in reporting it back in the 60s/70s anyway. So, yes, maybe women did have to be tougher but, no, that’s not a good thing.

Ah yes. You've just reminded me how after being whistled at by creeps on the way to school, I'd see those posters- Rape in Marriage:Make it a Crime
Disgusting that it was legal prior to 1991

I'm so very sorry about what happened to you too. Just awful.

I am not sure where the racism comment came from? I understand your views on everyday sexism and misogyny. I think at the time it was so ingrained in the culture, I didn't see it that way. It was just the accepted norm. That doesn't make it right.

I recently went on a training course about this topic, and one student said he was so scared about getting into any trouble or saying something unacceptable, that he hadn't even.be able to compliment his housemate to say she looked nice before the prom. I thought that was sad... as though we have gone from one extreme to the other and everyone is too scared to say anything positive in case it is twisted or misconstrued.

No. I wouldn't want things to go back to how they were, but equally I think the pendulum.has now swung too far in the opposite direction, and we need to find a happy medium.

I say what I’m saying as a woman of that time.

Again, as I said in my previous post, no one is saying it’s heinous, nor am I saying the men are vile, what made you think I was? I’ll again reiterate that I don’t think everyday sexism or misogyny are acceptable. You do, because it’s not as bad as rape? I also do not allow everyday racism in my life.

I say this as a child of that time, that was also groomed and raped. I think that the whole all girls women were fare game to be oggled etc, no way made it safer for us?

Im sorry you experienced the same.

i do not understand your viewpoint one single but, that women and there to be sexually objectified, so we will have to agree to disagree.

Would you think bringing the culture back would be a positive?

Or are you in the camp “that it was alright back then” because it just wasn’t.

Your female friends could always make a move themselves.

To add I was not overly bothered by wolf whistling. I found it more like a mosquito bite than something really problematic (most of the time although I have had some vile things said such as the man who announced, as he walked past me that he wanted to “j*zz on my tits”) But I don’t mind the eradication of attitudes that see women as little more than decorative objects whose sole purpose is to appeal to men (and wolf whistling is part of that).

And yes I am more than capable of telling a man to go away or removing a hand from my thigh but I should not have to.

And wolf whistling and somebody approaching you to ask you out are two very different things imo).

@AliTheMinx

I'm very sorry for what happened to you, that's horrendous

No. She reminds me of Geena Davis’ character in Blink Twice.

How old are you? I’m married with children, but I happily flirted with and dated men in my 20s and early 30s. It wasn’t a hell scape at all, but there were lecherous men. They were definitely looked down on by both sexes.

No-one in my extended circle of friends struggled to make moves on people they found attractive. There was fun and romance, pleasurable sex was enjoyed, people dated and had relationships and pretty much all are now married or in long term relationships.

Where do you live that the men don’t know how to talk to woman unless they have catcalled them? A grown man that can’t communicate his interest or attraction in a normal way would be a total turn off!

You can quote me all you want but then that means you have to engage with me and you don't want that, and frankly I don't want that either so off you go and start a fight with someone else, I'm not interested 😘😘

I understand your viewpoint. I'm just stating how it was for me in my lived experience. For me, wolf whistling wasn’t a huge issue and felt more like an extension of banter at the time, but I do understand the wider implications.

I say this as someone who was violently raped aged 18, but not as a result of wolf whistling, but as a result of being groomed. The person who raped me was evil, but I don't believe every man who has wolf whistled at someone is.

You were sarcastic about my experience, the comment was directed at my past not in general.

You can attempt to backtrack now its dawning on you but too late I'm afraid.

Yes of course who has experienced racism reminding you not to minimise racism especially not on Holocaust Memorial Day is the petty and ignorant one. Beggars belief.

I do not wish to engage further with someone like you.

Im glad you agree it's unacceptable to wolf whistle at children.

But do you think that the men who wolf whistled schoolgirls of 13/14 were all completely different men to the ones who wolf whistled adult women?

They weren't.

They were part of the general culture of it being acceptable for men to draw attention to female bodies in a public space.

That's why it's not harmless as a general behaviour, even if the specific recipient isn't bothered.

It represents and breeds male entitlement and the expectation that girls and women should accept / be flattered by / tolerate / humour / be grateful for unsolicited male attention. And above all, not 'make a fuss'.

No it’s not a heinous crime and no one has said it was, it was however, everyday sexism and misogyny.

I don’t need any man to “harmless” fun for anyone.

No. I don't agree with schoolgirls, although it certainly happened to me (and cars beeping, etc) from about 13-14+. It's absolutely not right, but I never personally felt unsafe (and sometimes it was a confidence boost). Looking back, I can absolutely understand why it was unacceptable, but times were different then, and I can only reflect on how I felt in the moment. I felt that men would back off/stop if you told them to - as naive as that may sound now.

Then perhaps read back to the post at 17.00

I didn't mock or was sarcastic about anyone else's experience in years gone by. I merely shared my own. Fairycakes then appeared question my experience and mocked it sarcastically. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and they came back and confirmed their post was sarcastic about my experience in the 90s

You don't get to be sarcastic about racism 30 odd years ago to a person of colour and not expect a reaction. The same applies for SA survivors of which I'm one and have shared on here previously.

Fairycakes can't take the piss and then cry hard done by when they were the one who started it in the first place.

What about it being done to school girls? Thoughts on how prevalent that has been particularly in the past? Do you still think it's harmless in those cases?

It's better to be slapped than to be punched unconscious but it's a perfectly reasonable stance to say both are unacceptable.

I agree with Joanna to some extent. I never had an issue with being bothered by wolf whistling. It always seemed like harmless fun, and it was easy to just ignore/walk on by if you weren't interested. I completely understand why some people may not like it, but I don't think it's always such a heinous crime.