Kemi B just suggested about Southport....

I think he was an angry loner to start with who then found a justification for his rage. I understand what Badenoch is saying about individual immigrants remaining connected to their old values because they can now keep in touch via the internet rather than receiving the occasional letter from home, and I think it's an interesting point. I just don't feel it's applicable to this particular case.

I'd like to know more about his early years and the bullying.

We need to do far more to have a zero tolerance on bullying.

It all went to pot after Bevan.

ASD was a comorbidity and nothing more. He clearly had separate issues giving him urges to harm and kill.

..as I said on the other thread, there are very few services for parents who’s child is violent, due to Autism, and with co~morbid mental health conditions. We only go what we nededed be investing in private treatment, and constant badgering of CAMHS.

My previously violent team is now not violent at all, working part-time, and applying for Apprenticeships. . I fear where we might have been if we did not have the knowledge, resource and contacts, that we have.

When the enquiry is compete, we will see systemic failure

Shes a rabble rousing disgrace
Those comments are irrelevant to Southport given AR was a christian was born in UK. If he wasn't integrated it was because of system failings in response to whatever was going on with him.

theres occasionally posts on the teenage board where people are struggling with support. Police unable to do much, social services just batting it back.

For these 'lone wolves', what can be done?

There have been loners, misfits and misanthropes across history

In the last century, they were socially isolated, may have found pen pals in the back of specialist magazines, gone to war and died, been institutionalised or imprisoned/executed after a similar outburst as what happened in Southport

What's happening now, is that these once socially isolated individuals have access to the Internet at a very early age

This allows them access to media which fuels their illnesses/skewed points of view and allows them to find other individuals which reinforce their point of view

Search engine and social media algorithms actually use a 'more of the same as before' programming to show content similar to that searched for in the past

Perhaps there were warning signs in earlier childhood, or perhaps puberty triggered something

His parents, social services, his school and the police did seek help fron the PREVENT team and he was under the purview of local mental health services.

He had no particular ideology (religion, Andrew Tate misogyny, racial influence) and did not fit the 'normal criteria' for a PREVENT referral

The investigation into what happened, who knew what, when and how it got to this stage will take some years

They did. The parents called the police at least six times. And each time the police came out, they did nothing.

there was a referral service for this. For violent children, likely to carry knives and join gangs.
it just disappeared with our 14 years of austerity. He didn’t meet prevents criteria as its terror related and he needed the original service to help the loner incel type

He was diagnosed with autism years ago. He had an EHCP. He was under CAMHS. His parents repeatedly called the police. There’s no evidence that his parents knew he had a knife during the taxi incident, but even if they did, the police had found Rudakubana carrying a knife and simply returned him to his mother.

@Hotflushesandchilblains I know all these agencies could do with far more funding but he had access to services.

He didn't meet the criteria for prevent and when he did start to look at Al queda stuff his case was "closed". Funding or stupidity?
He did have cahms and he didn't seem to want to engage.
He had a specialist school reaching out to him with police support because he terrified them.
The police saw him with a knife I don't know if the police got involved when he smashed the school boy risk.

I'm not seeing a funding issue I'm seeing a gaping hole of where to put him and what to do.

Completely not relevant to Stockport as he was born here.
however, I can see there needing to be a lot more support for children who have witnessed horrific things before finding home in the uk. There’s definitely a lot of support needed there.

Prevent had a definition of terrorism which did not include what this guy was expressing. It was beyond CAMHS (most CAMHS are completely overloaded and in my area, refer people over 16 to adult services which require a higher level of opt in than child services). Outreach is time consuming and expensive - but needs to be done for people like this. Whether it is more funding for existing services like Prevent or CAMHS, or looking at the (ever increasing) gaps between services and putting things in place for those people which would be the Integrated Care Boards responsibility, the simple fact is that all public services are limping along. Try asking your local ICB what their strategy is - they spend huge amounts of public money and are almost completely unaccountable. Increasing number of people are not getting intervention when their and other peoples safety depends on it. As I said, it is always a knee jerk to say people should get fired. It is a lot harder to hold systems to account.

@BoldRed he was obsessed with the Rwanda genocide.
Interestingly neither starmer nor kemi has mentioned the autism aspect/ bullying /isolation.

She’s a vile opportunist hoping to rise on a wave of far right racism. There is no evidence yet that Rudakubana was in favour of ‘white genocide’. He was an extremely disturbed young man, autistic, bullied at school, isolated, angry, with mental health issues, who had become obsessed with genocides and easily-accessed violent content online. Not unlike the Brianna Ghey killers. Nobody seems to have known what to do with him. Starmer is right we have to look at agencies and expand their roles to deal with this growing threat. I have a horrible feeling that there are thousands of potential Rudakubanas in bedrooms around the country.

I said I agreed with the failures. But the failures aren’t the root cause.

@rewilded I thought she was referring to his family though. We don't know or have any evidence to suggest they don't love the UK?
Their other son is fine.
I don't know why or how axel himself was supposed to feel about the UK when he didn't know any difference.
However one does wonder whether autism and bullying helped to shape his future and what in school are we doing about bullying right from reception?

@Hotflushesandchilblains.. But he had access to many agencies.
How could more funding helped?
He was referred to prevent but at that time didn't meet their criteria and when he did apparently his case was closed.
he had access to cahms but both prevent and cahm rely on his interaction.. The police saw him with a knife and took him home when they could have arrested him, his parents reported him.
Nothing.

I think she actually said that if the Government can't get a handle on this with so many agencies involved then other strategies need to be looked at. She didn't apologise/make excuses. She said that if a family of asylum seekers were not seeing the UK and it's people as a positive thing then immigration should be tackled.

She also said that more studies should be looked at second generation immigrants and that if several institutions couldn't get a handle on the situation other measures should be considered. She said she would not back away from difficult conversations.

She also said that people hold onto their culture due to access to the internet and it was different to say the 1950s or 1980s and that people were not taking on British culture and values etc.

I thought she made a lot of sense.

The killer was obsessed with ethnic cleansing and has spoken about wanting white genocide.

I think Badenoch is right to a point. There's little or no integration - that's really the responsibility of the immigrant person however and not a UK societal failing as such.

I am totally with Kemi for once. It's about time we taught the Welsh better values. It's been a disaster ever since Offas Dyke fell into disrepair.