Should the father of the 4 Hoath boys also be charged with manslaughter?

My understanding is that he had moved onto a new partner and had other children, so basically left those poor kids to it

I found the picture of the children heartbreaking but no, legally this can't really apply

What a horrible and tragic story.

Surely the main focus is how can we, as a society, make sure the children in cases like this don't continue to bear the brunt. Hopeless parents (for whatever reason) and the care system appears to be completely fucked, so it's not even as if taking them into care would have helped.

I despair. Those poor little boys.

Because no-one can do a good job of looking after 4 kids under 2 round the clock by themselves.

Lots of women have mental health issues and don't neglect or kill their children. Why should the dad have suspected she would? If she'd told him she didn't want him around (maybe she didn't, but we don't know), then what was he supposed to do?

A childminder would not legally be allowed to look after that many kids that age during the working day, let alone 24/7. Why? Because it is too fucking much to ask of anyone and is courting disaster. Even if they split amicably, it was blindingly obvious that she would need a fuckload of support as soon as he left.

If he didn’t see his kids he should be accountable and if he didn’t see his kids and didn’t do anything then accountability too. It can’t always be the woman to blame

Was it followed up that the eldest twins had not been in school for weeks?

Try being a SW. No one goes into that profession hoping to make children suffer. It's a nightmare with a lack of staff and endless bureaucracy.

Just been FB stalking and looks like the dad had 3 younger dc with another woman. So you do wonder.....

On this particular case - we don’t know enough to judge.

Morally, I think fathers who actually abandon their children should be charged with child neglect. But practically that would likely lead to worse outcomes for children since fathers who don’t give a shit about them will go through the motions to get out of being charged. That would mean more children would spend more time in the care of unfit parents - because Social Services does not have the resources to follow up on the parents it needs to now let alone hundreds of thousands more and the thresholds are too low to prevent children’s childhoods from being messed up by this sort of thing.

We don't (I think) know what the circumstances behind the split were or any arrangements that were in place. There is a problem with fathers who don't take responsibility, but there's also a problem with fathers who either represent a danger to their kids/ex or are perceived as doing so by the mother. We simply don't know the circumstances here.

Yes, she was clearly an unfit mother, and the father was a dead beat dad, the relatives, pond-life all soaking up the sympathy on FB were dead beat relatives.
No one cared enough to intervene, all dumb as rocks polishing their halos on FB where the dumb as rocks pondlife people hang out

What a terribly sad case. Beautiful boys.

How many of us could cope alone with four under four? I definitely could not. She may not have planned to have twins each time.

The mother went to the GP during COVID and said she couldn't cope. Don't know if any help was forthcoming or not?

But she was acting responsibly then by doing that. I don't know if that is what triggered SS involvement.

I shouldn't judge because I don't know enough about the case but there have obviously been wider failings than hers alone. Of course she failed them fundamentally by going to the shop for unnecessary items and leaving them alone.

I assume she looked after them for many more days and nights than their father though. She was at least looking after them I mean. Poor children and poor woman. I think it's too easy to blame her alone.

We don't know enough to be able to judge.
On here, nearly on a daily basis, mothers told to meet their ex on neutral ground, not allowing him to the home. Boundaries etc
Would he have had anywhere to take them? Did he have a home suitable to take them to? A dad turning up at housing to say he needs a 3 bed house as he wants his kids who are with their mother would be laughed straight to the HMO lists of private room rentals or handed a sleeping bag!
As usual, support services weren't there for the mother. She may have been ill or immature or both..who knows.
Hindsight is such a wonderful gift.

Sorry but is this thread based on any facts O haven't read yet

If you think that reading about the 'facts' in the media will give you a truly accurate understanding of the nuanced, incremental, systemic and historic failures and circumstances of all parties in this - or any - situation, then you're a fool.

orissa it just an opportunity to once again put the blame on fathers for any wrongdoings no matter what?

The problem here is precisely because fathers are not held accountable for their wrongdoing. They are rarely held accountable for anything at all, and the permission society gives them to just walk away with no repercussions, while the mother shoulders immense responsibility and pressure alone is abhorrent.

Fathering a child and then not being present enough in their lives to notice that an extreme situation is occuring is alone grounds for neglect - and in cases like this where tragedy occurs, probably more.

Yes, I think I probably wouldn’t have had particularly robust mental health after two sets of twins.

Yes agree with that. There such a low bar for men. Of course the mother absolutely shouldn't have left them at home alone. But how about we do more about fathers that fuck off and no doubt go on to produce more kids and the cycle starts again.

I don’t believe you can prosecute but I admit I felt the same when I read the article. Him and other family members saying how devastated they were - if they were involved in any meaningful way in the childrens’ lives, they would’ve noticed something was amiss.

The woman was solo parenting 4 toddlers 24/7. It is hardly surprising her mental health was shot to shit. If it was a job, her employers would be in the dock.

@dynamiccactus ,

‘There is a contractual relationship there as well as legal duties on childcare professionals.’

There are legal duties on all adults who care for children, including parents.

If my ex wife told me tomorrow that she no longer wanted to care for our children 50% of the time, I might not be happy but I would care for them the same as I do now, taking full responsibility all the time.

And, if I failed in this basic parental duty, I would be 100% to blame.

Yes, for failing parents, there should be interventions and help, and clearly lots failed here. And he was a dead beat dad, and can be blamed for that. But their deaths are totally on her.

The dad admitted he knew the mum left those kids alone. He is just as guilty in my opinion. Have you seen the step-grandmother’s FB post about how it’s all down to her the kid’s mum was prosecuted? Typical attention seeking behaviour for the FB likes. They are all as bad as each other. They all let those boys down.

This. On the news they said the house was squalid, rubbish and excrement everywhere. The paternal family saying: "justice is done" without any notion that they could've prevented it by checking in on a mother who clearly wasn't coping

In mitigation, Laurie-Anne Power KC said that Rose had "asked for help and it was not forthcoming".
Her four children were "loved and cherished" and "looked after by her and her alone, while struggling with what are described by experienced psychiatrists as complex psychiatric mental health needs".

This is the problem in this country, people are desperate and there is no help. Despite having complex psychiatric mental health needs, this woman had no help. People can be as tired of hearing about MH as a reason as they like - but while there is no help, tragedies like this will continue.

i can quite see how two sets of twins so close in age would be extremely challenging and I would have hoped support would have been offered but I suspect not.