Should the father of the 4 Hoath boys also be charged with manslaughter?

presumably your husband has a paper trail to prove that he has done his best to be involved, which would count in his favour

I had something similar happen in 1999

It was court ordered that I drop my 2 dc (aged 3 and 2 at the time) to their fathers house (which I did) for about 10am

He was stone cold sober,not off his face etc

By about half 3,I had the police on my doorstep,with a social worker and my dc

He was off his face on god knows what and the kids where found wandering around the gated area-he was unconscious in the corner

I was told if I allowed them anywhere near him again,I'd not only lose them,I'd be up on a charge of neglect

The problem was,I was going to be in trouble for breaching the court order if I stopped
taking them to him-I could have gone to prison (as it was,the female judge listened to me and he got supervised visits and he soon lost interest in them-thank god)

The police and social services couldn't have cared less about this-just kept repeating that I'd be the one in trouble if I allowed him near my kids

All that happened to him was a trip to hospital-nothing more

No police arresting him,no social worker threatening him,nobody telling him that taking drugs around kids was a bad idea-i was to blame and that was the end of that

This poor woman-she must have been at the end of her rope with 4 kids and mental health issues with no support

She made a bloody big mistake and I don't believe for one minute that the father or his family would have stepped up and helped if she'd asked-she was crying out for help

Quick enough to soak up all the likes and sympathy on sm though

I have experienced good relationships with health visitors many times but I think in 2021 they weren't getting face to face meetings etc due to COVID restrictions/backlog. Even just the basics have broken down in this country.

I don't know enough about the case to say how culpable he was in allowing his sons to live in such circumstances but I do wonder if he and his family could have done more to protect them.
However, he is not responsible for their deaths

I live locally, and I recall reading the early news reports about the fire.

This article states the father was aware the mother had left the children alone briefly before (but clarifies that he was not aware of them being left for long periods of time):

https://www.mylondon.news/news/transport/dad-4-boys-killed-sutton-30065856#amp-readmore-target

And this article says the father had more children with his new partner, but he "would have been over in a shot if she needed someone to look after the boys": https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17077363/sutton-fire-mum-jeered-angry-crowd-heartbroken-dad/

I have some friends, a couple who had a three year old and then had twins. They were wonderful parents, a real team who were devoted to their three under fives and I remember them being on their knees with exhaustion. That is with both parents who were fully present physically and emotionally. I cannot comprehend coping alone with two sets of very young twins. I am not in any way excusing the mother or seeking to mitigate the horror of what happened to those little boys, but I can begin to guess the strain she must have been under

Beyond tragic, always there are other family stating their grief, where were they when the mother was struggling, clearly very mentally unwell.
The house was filled with rubbish to the extent the bathroom couldn't be used; that's didn't happen overnight.

The judge can and should make some pithy remarks about the DC RIP having been abandoned once already.

In 1995 I dropped my children then aged 6 and 4 with their dad at 10am. He was sober by 3pm he took them to the doctor's as DD was poorly (fine when I dropped her off), they didn't have an appointment so as he was very drunk at this point he threatened to kill the doctor and receptionist if they didn't see her. The police came didn't arrest him took the children off him brought them to me at work and told me that if I ever took my kids to him again when he was drunk I would be prosecuted.
As I said he wasn't drunk he chose to get drunk DD became ill with her asthma because of his smoking.
I always put the treatment of me in this down to misogynistic policing. He just got told to go home. Not charged with anything.

So I agree with the OPs sentiment the absent parents behaviour should be looked at and abandonment should be accountable.
This case is absolutely tragic and I wonder how much effect the lockdowns had on the mother seeing as the boys died in December 2021.
RIP poor little boys together forever.

Both.

Nobody's mentioned the landlord why were the lights not working or the toilet?

Tbh if you go down that path, then shouldn’t all the adults in the childrens’ lives be held accountable too? Grandparents, aunts, uncles. Every one of them if in the childrens’ lives could have reported the situation to the authorities, but probably didn’t.

Having kids isn’t compulsory but many of us don’t know how hard it is until you’re in the thick of it. And two sets of twins is quite a lot of work <understatement>

Why have kids then?
,it's not compulsory they weren't in a Stable relationship or married were they?
Usual story, sex and then people move on.
They just wanted a shag plain and simple.

Are you talking about him or her?

Why have kids then?
,it's not compulsory they weren't in a Stable relationship or married were they?
Usual story, sex and then people move on.
They just wanted a shag plain and simple.
Sort yourselves out. God it makes me sick as well. Smoking heavily around the children and leaving tea lights around and rubbish.

These are the consequences of all those things combined.

And before they were 3 and 4 at some point they would have been 0 and 1....

If I'd walked out on them and not looked out for them and taken any interest then yes

Dosent mean the mother should go out and leave 4 kids alone.

How disgusting.

Shouldn't be heavily smoking in the house either.
It's just another sad and scummy story.
Poor boys.

What's this about her being blind? I did read that she had problems with her eyesight which was deteriorating. But why? Sounds like she had physical health problems as well as MH ones!

From the sentencing remarks it sounds like her parents and the father's parents and grandparents did more to help than he did. Whether that was his choice or hers, who knows.

Dad is equally to blame.
I note that he and grandparents are vocal now. But it’s a bit too late! Where were they? Did they give mum a break?

She tried to ask for help. She didn't get any. It was during covid, she had complicated mental health issues no doubt exacerbated by four years of little sleep and parenting four toddlers alone during lockdown.

I just read about it, it seems she started to unravel during covid, being alone with the 4 boys under 4, she asked her Dr for help but there was no help for her. The dad could have stepped up massively, if you saw your ex partner struggling to the point where there is himan excrement across the floor in the house your children were living in, wouldnt you do something? What about the other family members too. A women unravels, asks for help and noone, no one person helps her as she tries to raise 2 sets of twins alone during a pandemic and she starts to make huge lapses in judgement, can't clean her house and ultimately her sons pay the highest price. It really is tragic.

Sure. But the babysitter should call police/ social services to take the kids, not just walk off. As should a parent who realise they can't cope. First secure the safety of the kids, and then run away.

Why was there piles of excrement in bucket everywhere? Why weren’t the older children at school. Would she not have been entitled to nursery?
On another note why if she was tired was she lighting candles with small children.
It’s a horrible tragedy.