Circumcision should be banned.

It's entirely reasonable to think that ALL children - regardless of their parent's outdated beliefs - should be protected from unnecessary harm by law.

I think this is a problematic view when it's possible to be an otherwise 'good' parent (especially on the surface) yet be abusive in a certain respect, even if it's just the one way.

My pretty thick-skinned and open-minded cousin witnessed a circumcision as part of a religious ceremony and said it was traumatising. That was the word he used.

My husband is Muslim and circumcised. He thinks it's unclean not to be and is glad he is - but of course it is all he has ever known so he probably would say that as his was straightforward as far as he's aware. We compromised and said any sons we had could make that decision themselves as older teenagers. (We never decided on an exact age as we never had sons but I think perhaps 16 as I would have said 18 and I imagine he'd have said 14.) It was actually something we discussed when we had only been together about a year as it would have been a dealbreaker for me in terms of agreeing to marry him (and have a family with him, which we both wanted) if he insisted on an infant or young child being circumcised.

• some things

I have no doubts they are doing somethings right. It's just abusing their children by mutilating them isn't one of them.

My feelings entirely, Spunky Culture. It's perfectly reasonable in my view to say that you don't believe in circumcision. Quite another to say that 20% of UK parents are thoughtless child abusers. Jewish children in the UK seem to do okay in life generally, according to most surveys, ditto West Africans, so their parents are probably doing something right.

Why are you so disrespectful?
I don't agree with, but am able to do so in a more adult, less offensive way.

Doesn't stop them being abusive just cos they're doing it in the name of some imaginary figure in the sky.

I will thanks for the suggestion. I’m guessing by your response you’ve abused and mutilated your child? @samG76

As a parent you are meant to care and protect your child, not abuse them.

Thanks for that helpful tip. I'll pass it on to the Jewish, Muslim and African parents I know. Perhaps you could do so as well - maybe stop members of these communities in the street and let them know your views...

Imagine using religion to justify the mutilation of your child. As a parent you are meant to care and protect your child, not abuse them.

I don’t think these rules were proscribed by god they were made by the men of the time. If you live surrounded by sand with limited water then I imagine you can get some pretty nasty infections under a foreskin. The same goes for a lot of food based rules, perhaps more hygiene led but with god said so people would follow the rules.

Prople were a pretty dirty lot back then (comparatively) I do think lots of people have stepped away from religion as it’s failed to keep pace with modern life.

Men have a foreskin for a reason, it shouldn't be taken off and certainly not for religion and certainly without any anaesthetic!

Any God that prescribes mutilation of childrens genitals isn't one worth following

Do people really not understand the difference between male and female circumcision?
The main difference is that a man can consent to male circumcision when he is old enough to understand the consequences.
A woman can never consent because the procedure is so harmful its illegal for medical staff to perform.

Absolutely this

Kendodd - there are lots of Christians around (a number of well known footballers, for example), but none of those who speak up seem to be in the CofE. In my view that's because the CofE has lost any idea of belief or values, but for a lot of minorities religion is and always was an important tribal marker. I don't think it's anything to do with ghettoization.

The Children Act 2004 made it illegal to assault a child causing actual or grievous bodily harm, I'd say in law it's already covered and it's about time more people were prosecuted and not allowed to use religion as an excuse for their heinous acts.
Kendodd
This is my feeling as well. I think lots of Christians have decided religion is a load of rubbish but other religions haven't. Why do you think that is?
I'd say because in the UK many minority groups have "ghettoised" themselves over the years for understandable reasons of safety, familiarity and support and I expect growing up, if that's the only world you know (that has deep seated religious influence) then it would be hard to break away from that influence.

When my teenage daughter wanted her ears pierced, she was asked to sign the consent form herself. Rightly so - it was her body, her choice.

If men choose to have their healthy foreskin cut off then and want to consent to this then fine. Their body, their choice.

If adults choose to cut off the healthy foreskin of their little boys then this is isn't fine. It's their body. It's their choice.

This is my feeling as well. I think lots of Christians have decided religion is a load of rubbish but other religions haven't. Why do you think that is?

I'm just going to say it again Can parents stop cutting their babies?

My sister getting my niece's ears pierced at two was bad enough, can it just stop?

Agree with this.

Theyre entirely different.

But I would like to see a ban on modifications to children’s bodies and that includes war piercings. Cultural and religious reasons never trump the welfare or autonomy of a child

I’m in the US, where we’ve got a much higher circumcision rate than the UK. A lot of the reasons people have over here are, IMO, incredibly stupid. “It’s cleaner! He won’t look like his father if he isn’t circumcised!” My husband and I had daughters, but before having kids, we agreed that we wouldn’t circumcise sons if we had them.

However, I think a genuine belief that God commands it of your people to symbolize the covenant between God and Abraham is, as these things go, a much more respectable reason. And I think Jews have been through enough for the last few millennia without a bunch of gentiles decreeing that they can’t perform an important ritual in their religion.

If people are harming children with irrevocable genital surgery in the name of religion, and thinking that’s wrong is being ignorant, then I’m happy to be called ignorant in that circumstance.

There is a line as to what is morally acceptable or not, whether religiously motivated or not, and cosmetic / non-medically necessary surgery on children or infants is way way over that line in my view.

I don’t care how small the minority that does it is, anyone doing it is unacceptable. And while I understand there is going to be a reluctance to upset the groups that do it, that’s cowardice in my view, because protecting children should trump upsetting people. Every time.

Gothenthere - the tiny minority being about 20% of the population who actually do it, plus quite a few who don't do it but don't have a problem with others doing so. And I don't think studies do show the country is becoming less religious. I think it shows CofE members becoming atheists (which isn't much of a change, in truth) but other religions thriving.

samG76 · Today 18:09

Late onto this discussion but the level of religious ignorance is astonishing. No Jewish or Muslim person think that God has made a mistake. That's why circumcision is only required for members of the faith. Unlike many forms of Christianity we don't claim to have a monopoly on the truth or have any wish to legislate for them. What non-Jews or Muslims do is up to them.

But babies haven't chosen that faith. As a country that is becoming less religious I'd hope that the laws that protect children trump any pandering to a tiny minority of people who think mutilating children is ok.