Circumcision should be banned.

It’s a horrible practice. I actually have a cousin whose marriage ended over the subject. She (a Sikh) was married to a Jewish American guy who always said he wasn’t that fussed about his sons being circumcised. Different story when their son was born. It was awful for my cousin with her having to argue over her newborn son’s penile sensitivity.

I’m British but live in the US (my DH is American). I think about 70 percent of US born male babies were circumcised when he was born, plus he’s Jewish, so… When our son was born in the UK he asked the midwives about it being done on the NHS and they were both bemused and a bit horrified! I was dead against it and after doing some research he agreed with me. I asked American friends about it and they were convinced we’d done the wrong thing - they seemed to think foreskins on their own cause infection (!?) or that having one is somehow dirty, and that that was a good enough reason to mutilate a newborn. It’s still a standard procedure here, nothing to do with religion - I think over half of newborn boys are still circumcised. Blows my mind.

Yeah I've always found this odd. I wonder how it came about? Given a large proportion of Americans are of either European, Latin American or African descent and none of these societies routinely circumcise their babies it seems strange that it has become so commonplace.

In theory I would support ban on all non-medical changes in children. Cultural and religious respect must have some borders when it comes to application on children - who might not choose the same cultural/religious approach later in life.

I am very curious how many of those (men) saying male circumcision in children is necessary for religious reasons would actually decide to go and have it done on themselves should they had they choice as adults.

In practice, the moment we say it does include things like infant ear rings piercing and children stick-out ears surgery, my own central European atheist country would start shouting about destroying our culture.

In the end, sticking it together makes the very harmful stuff like FGM looks less bad, as part of banning because of ideology of non-ideology, and some people would defend it just to defend their practices.

whilst I appreciate the consequences for many (not all) children might be different. At their core are they not both ideologically motivated with no benefit to the recipient? I ask this genuinely, in what ways do you consider them so extremely different?

I really don't care who this offends but if you cut your child's foreskin off for religious or cultural reasons or because it's 'the done thing' where you live, then you're a child abuser. Your sons foreskin is not yours to decide what to do with. If your 'god' or 'community' call for you to mutilate your child and you go along with it then you're brain dead.

If your son wants to remove his foreskin when he's 18 to impress his 'god', or because it's the cultural norm then that's up to him. But to do it to an infant with no say is abhorrent.

It is true that circumcision is a significant protection against HIV, but Uganda for example, has a HIV rate of around 6% vs the UK's fraction of a percentage. It is simply not needed as a population wide measure here.

I personally don’t see a problem with it for religious reasons… However I feel that even if for religious reasons it should be carried out by a medical doctor under anaesthetic. And I don’t think children should go under anaesthetic for such reasons, unless it’s medically required. So for that reason, I guess I’m against it.

IF those figures are reliable, and IF there are health benefits, a grown adult man can make the decision to be circumcised, and meantime use a condom. It shouldn’t be forced on children.

Condoms are far more effective that circumcision for reducing the spread of hiv/aids. They should be promoted ahead of medical procedures. They also have the benefit of helping protect women too.

If a bloke wants to be circumcised as an adult to help prevent the spread of hiv, then he can go ahead. Babies cannot consent

It is declining, even in religious communities.

I'm from a community where it's normal and expected. Lot of pressure when DS was going to be and I stood my ground and said he's not going to be, fuck off.
Surprisingly my family respected the decision and even said 'no mother wants to do it to their son'. I was so relieved, i genuinely thought they would take my son and do it behind my back.
Speaking to other women from the community they also agree it's not nice and didn't need to be done. I'm glad now women have more rights and are able to stand up for stuff like this.
I always remember Stacey Solomon when she speaks about the guilt of getting her eldest son circumcised. So sad.

I see your point, but for balance, what about dramatic medical benefits?

Source below.

Multiple studies of male circumcision for HIV prevention were stopped early because they showed a significant reduction in HIV infection rates. These studies were conducted in Kenya, Uganda, and South Africa.
Explanation
Kisumu, Kenya
A study of 2,784 men found that circumcised men had a 53% lower risk of HIV infection than uncircumcised men.
Rakai, Uganda
A study of 4,996 men found that circumcised men had a 48% lower risk of HIV infection than uncircumcised men.
South Africa
A study known as the "Orange Farm Intervention Trial" found that circumcised men had a 60% lower risk of HIV infection than uncircumcised men.

No, it’s not exactly the same as FGM but is equally abhorrent in my eyes. Unless it was deemed medically necessary, how can any loving mother allow their precious baby to be mutilated for the sake of ‘religion’ when the child is unable to give consent.

The current % of men circumcised in the US is 80%.
Rates for babies is decling and is under 60% so the popularity is obviously slowing and the overall rates will be lower as the next generation grows up. Whether the father is or isnt circumcised is the number 1 factor in whether a son is.

I don't agree with circumcision at all but I think in practice it would be pretty much impossible to enforce a ban.

Bearing in mind infant circumcision is standard practice in the Jewish community, almost the entire Arab world and most of the USA.

FGM is against international law and illegal in most of the world, including many of the countries where it is commonly practised. So if a medical professional encounters a girl or woman who has undergone FGM, it's pretty clear that a crime has been committed somewhere. Proving who/where/when is the difficulty, which is why convictions are so rare.

Also, women are far more likely to need to show their genitals to healthcare workers than men are, because we have babies. Whereas unless a man has a health issue affecting his penis, or requires catheterisation or some other form of intimate care, nobody other than his carers or sexual partners is likely to see his penis.

You are incorrect - it can.

My son is circumcised for religious reasons (muslim). It was done when he was a baby.
The situation was extremely complex.

However, male circumcision and FGM are not the same and its not helpful to conflate the two issues.

Hate this attitude. It’s so weaselly.

You can absolutely respect other cultures while retaining confidence in your own moral standards.

Refusing to take a stance on, say, FGM or circumcision or child marriage or whatever because “it’s cultural” is a kind of prejudice in itself IMO. You wouldn’t even consider accepting those things for a child of your own, so why should you drop your standards for a muslim or jewish child?

Overall I would be in favour of a total ban on any form of body modification/surgical procedure for children unless it’s been deemed medically necessary. I let my daughters get their ears pierced but it would have done them zero harm to have to wait till 16/18 & if a total ban made it easier to implement/police other forms of body modification/surgery it seems reasonable.

Do you have a source for that. The guardian reported that the rate of circumcision has fallen from 60% in 2000.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/21/foreskin-reclaimers-the-intactivists-fighting-infant-male-circumcision

Where did you get 99% from?