Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Circumcision should be banned.

634 replies

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 14:44

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2025/01/judge-and-parents-call-for-boys-to-be-protected-from-circumcision

Article describes an upsetting case of two doctors performing these ops without anesthesia, and with sometimes serious side effects. One boy nearly died.

The National Secular Society is running a concurrent campaign to ban all 'religious cutting' - that includes both FGM and male circumcision. I wholeheartedly agree that no baby or child should suffer in this way. More info:

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-surgery/

YABU - circumcision for religous reasons is fine
YANBU - circumcision should be banned (unless there is a medical reason)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Hoppinggreen · 24/01/2025 16:30

Any cutting bits off your child and/or making holes in them should be illegal unless a Medical professional has deemed it necessary for medical reasons

Ponoka7 · 24/01/2025 16:30

namechangeGOT · 24/01/2025 16:06

I really don't care who this offends but if you cut your child's foreskin off for religious or cultural reasons or because it's 'the done thing' where you live, then you're a child abuser. Your sons foreskin is not yours to decide what to do with. If your 'god' or 'community' call for you to mutilate your child and you go along with it then you're brain dead.

If your son wants to remove his foreskin when he's 18 to impress his 'god', or because it's the cultural norm then that's up to him. But to do it to an infant with no say is abhorrent.

What I would say to that is in a country like Uganda/Nigeria, were the healthcare isn't good and expensive, you can see why it's best to do it as a newborn. Circumcision at a later age would be life threatening because of infection. Having a foreskin could be life threatening if it gets infected, STIs such as herpes is of less of a risk.
If it is banned this will be driven underground, then we have to decide punishment. Now do we remove children because of this, all (even the emotionally bonded older daughter) some (just boys)? Put people in prison? We'd have to have clear strategies.

Combustivechicken · 24/01/2025 16:30

I’m Jewish and I feel very strongly that this practice needs to stop. How you stop it though I don’t know. How the sign of being a Jewish male relies on having a part of the body removed, I find ridiculous. A lot of religious rules and laws are hard for me to make any sense of, but they don’t cause physically damage . If you want to avoid eating dairy after meat, fair enough, Not drive a car or carry a bag on Shabbat, crack on. But cutting parts of the bodies of babies who have no voice or choice and which may leave them with lifelong problems - time it stopped.

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 16:29

A paper here looking at severity of FGM and changes over time in 22 countries:

'FGM is becoming less common over time, but it remains a pervasive practice in some countries: more than half of women in 7 of the 22 countries we examined still experience FGM. The severity of the procedures has not changed substantially over time.'

https://gh.bmj.com/content/2/4/bmjgh-2017-000467

Thirty-year trends in the prevalence and severity of female genital mutilation: a comparison of 22 countries

Thirty-year trends in the prevalence and severity of female genital mutilation: a comparison of 22 countries

Introduction Female genital mutilation (FGM) harms women’s health and well-being and is widely considered a violation of human rights. The United Nations has called for elimination of the practice by 2030.Methods We used household survey data to measur...

https://gh.bmj.com/content/2/4/bmjgh-2017-000467

OP posts:
Youbutterbelieve · 24/01/2025 16:28

The above was not antisemitic either, I find the influencing factors contributing to American culture fascinating!

LefttheLeft · 24/01/2025 16:27

HolyGrailSeeker · 24/01/2025 15:26

Unfortunately it can cause very severe issues of pain and sexual dysfunction for men who were circumcised as young children. It’s rare, but it does happen.

Actor Tom Rosenthal has talked about the problems he has faced following childhood circumcision and how he is against the circumcising of children.

Its not rare for FGM though, is it? Its rather part of the point of mutilating girls. For male circumcision its a bug, for FGM its a feature.

Not justifying male circumcision, just pointing out that there are significant differences in purpose and scale.

Youbutterbelieve · 24/01/2025 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 16:27

Joystir59 · 24/01/2025 16:24

Because there is a significant difference between removing a foreskin from a penis and scraping a girls clitoris away and sewing her labia together so tightly she cannot part with menstrual fluid or enjoy sexual pleasure

That is one specific type of FGM, infibulation. Agree, of course, that it's horrific and extreme.

OP posts:
helandy · 24/01/2025 16:26

greengreyblue · 24/01/2025 16:20

Why are th US into this ?

At an educated guess, I’d say American medics are more inclined to perform unnecessary procedures/tests to milk insurance companies, including circumcision. Loads of people here genuinely believe they’re doing it for the right reasons (cleanliness, protection from infection or injury). I’d imagine though that if the risks really were that high then it would be offered by national health services in the UK and elsewhere.

Ponderingwindow · 24/01/2025 16:26

An example of cultural relativism is acknowledging that the animals different cultures choose to consume is often arbitrary.

Avoiding cutting a child’s genitals without medical need is a moral absolute.

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 16:26

Here's a US hospital selling circumcision:

https://www.childrenshospital.org/treatments/circumcision

Talks about the potential benefits but nowhere is the word 'risk' used. Talk of complication is hand-waved away.

OP posts:
heroinechic · 24/01/2025 16:25

I don't think any procedures should be carried out on a child without medical necessity. From as mild as ear piercing to as severe as genital surgery. If there is no medical need for the procedure, it should not happen. Children should not suffer unnecessarily.

Lifelover16 · 24/01/2025 16:25

It’s mutilating a baby boys body before they are old enough to consent. Unless there is a good medical reason it should be banned.

Joystir59 · 24/01/2025 16:24

Coconutter24 · 24/01/2025 15:03

Why?

Because there is a significant difference between removing a foreskin from a penis and scraping a girls clitoris away and sewing her labia together so tightly she cannot part with menstrual fluid or enjoy sexual pleasure

OP posts:
greengreyblue · 24/01/2025 16:23

How strange. It’s natural to have a foreskin. Imagine having your clitoral hood removed!!!

Youbutterbelieve · 24/01/2025 16:22

helandy · 24/01/2025 16:20

It’s not 99 percent here in the States at all - over half of newborns are circumcised and around 80 percent of older males (14 plus). It varies by ethnicity too. But yes, it’s far higher than the UK.

Yes, the culture of circumcision in America is changing. It used to be the norm, regardless of religious affiliation because it was seen as "healthier". As evidence against that grows so do the number of pediatricians who recommend it and it's use is definitely declining.

greengreyblue · 24/01/2025 16:20

Why are th US into this ?

helandy · 24/01/2025 16:20

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 24/01/2025 15:27

99% of men in the USA are circumcised

It’s not 99 percent here in the States at all - over half of newborns are circumcised and around 80 percent of older males (14 plus). It varies by ethnicity too. But yes, it’s far higher than the UK.

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 16:20

LefttheLeft · 24/01/2025 16:17

I don't like lumping FGM with male circumcision as they are completely different in terms of the degree of injury and damage and harm, with FGM very manifestly being off the scale on this compared to male circumcision. The reasons are also completely incomparable, with FGM being done for cultural reasons to limit or prevent a woman's capacity to enjoy sex so that she remains faithful, or/and to be able to be sure she retains her virginity until marriage ( with her husband having to literally tear her open with his penis or even a knife to be able to enter her). Male circumcision is not done for these reasons.

I think they should be two separate campaigns.

I see your point, but FGM varies enormously, from minor cutting that seems very comparable to male circumcision in terms of being a skin removal procedure, to more extreme FGM that may include more drastic cutting and stitching etc.

From what I've read the more extreme types of FGM are thankfully by far in the minority internationally, although I don't know UK figures.

OP posts:
Dramatic · 24/01/2025 16:18

namechangeGOT · 24/01/2025 16:06

I really don't care who this offends but if you cut your child's foreskin off for religious or cultural reasons or because it's 'the done thing' where you live, then you're a child abuser. Your sons foreskin is not yours to decide what to do with. If your 'god' or 'community' call for you to mutilate your child and you go along with it then you're brain dead.

If your son wants to remove his foreskin when he's 18 to impress his 'god', or because it's the cultural norm then that's up to him. But to do it to an infant with no say is abhorrent.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. It should never be done for any reason other than medical.

Youbutterbelieve · 24/01/2025 16:18

I think circumcisions (and most surgical body modification) on minors should be banned for any reason other than medical necessity.

What consenting adult men do with their genitals is non of my business.

Most of my male Muslim friends wish they were in tact and my Muslim GP is also against it.

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2025 16:17

greengreyblue · 24/01/2025 16:16

Any cutting of children without medical reason should be outlawed.

Yep. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

OP posts:
LefttheLeft · 24/01/2025 16:17

I don't like lumping FGM with male circumcision as they are completely different in terms of the degree of injury and damage and harm, with FGM very manifestly being off the scale on this compared to male circumcision. The reasons are also completely incomparable, with FGM being done for cultural reasons to limit or prevent a woman's capacity to enjoy sex so that she remains faithful, or/and to be able to be sure she retains her virginity until marriage ( with her husband having to literally tear her open with his penis or even a knife to be able to enter her). Male circumcision is not done for these reasons.

I think they should be two separate campaigns.

greengreyblue · 24/01/2025 16:16

Any cutting of children without medical reason should be outlawed.