Circumcision should be banned.

I predict we'll see a court case at some point, an adult male suing their parents and practitioners, for circumcising them.

There doesn’t seem to be any agreement with @Cunningfungus that we should leave worrying about circumcision to men, so perhaps there’s no point in saying this but - if we did take that approach, that would seem to me to be fundamentally problematic for a whole host of women’s issues and feminist issues.
The obvious response is if men have to deal with men’s issues, then women have to deal with women’s ones. But women are largely powerless to change many of the things affecting them without input and cooperation from men. So if we follow this ‘that’s a men’s problem’ thing, doesn’t it just harm women more because men will almost have been given a free pass to (continue to) prioritise men’s issues.

Sorry this is probably a distraction, and something more suitable for the feminist board, but I am just slightly baffled by the suggestion that we should just leave circumcision for men to deal with.

I agree. But men are almost always the proponents of barbaric practices yet women are expected to challenge these despite having less of a voice in all societies.

@AliasGrace47 Men should campaign against FGM. I would argue tho that FGM is not as common here as circumcision- or is it?

Are you seriously entertaining the possibility that more than 1 in 5 women in the UK have undergone FGM?

& imams. But notice I didn't say male doctors. Female doctors & nurses are equally responsible when they participate, tho the numbers may be lower for doctors, I don't know.... In the US, where it's not religious mainly, I think women probs are likely to have a 50% say in it.
Admittedly, I was thinking of non religious. This is much more common in US, here it is most likely Jewish or Muslim couples where the woman may have less autonomy. But I don't want to say all these Jewish & Muslim women have no choice. Plenty will have autonomy, not all Orthodox Jewish women are helplessly oppressed. & some will be like pps, w a Jewish or Muslim husband but not following the religion themselves.
Imo, when you are a parent, you need to protect, & cutting should be something you think long & hard about if there is a valid medical reason. & if not..I know partners & religious leaders can be controlling & abusive, but you need to protect your child. & yourself, if they're pushing you so much.

I really can’t imagine what’s confusing? Men and women are responsible for keeping babies safe. That’s it. Don’t chop bits of their skin off and don’t do anything else painful and unnecessary to them…. Surely we can all get behind that? Can’t we?

Babies are like fish, they don't feel pain. (Victorian belief)

Eh? Your post makes no sense at all.

The decisions to circumcise are not overly autonomous. Those practising religions who propose it are not free from controlling influences. They have true autonomy.

As your post demonstrates - men are behind this. Men should be influencing male rabbis, (under the guise of religion where god is male). The “doctors and the men who promote it”. In what world outside the middle class world of MN do women have 50% influence?

Men should campaign against FGM. I would argue tho that FGM is not as common here as circumcision- or is it? It should be the priority, as it's more risky.
However, circumcision is NHS sanctioned so I think that needs to be highlighted as it's unacceptable. I also can't believe religious ones are allowed w no other medical supervision. If it must be done, it should always be in hospital under anaesthetic.

To those arguing in favour of circumcision, “Three children have bled to death in recent years in the UK following circumcision.” It is barbaric and unnecessary. Occasionally it might be needed for medical reasons, but that is an entirely different matter. I am outraged on the baby boys’ behalf that they should have something both painful and permanent inflicted on them with no autonomy over their own body. We do not allow children to have tattoos - why should it be permitted to chop pieces off them on their parents’ say-so?

Actually it is a really simple issue. Genital cutting is abhorrent.

@Cunningfungus Why shouldn’t men advocate for male infants?

I didn't say that men shouldn't advocate for male infants! I think that both men and women should advocate for male infants. You're the one who said that women shouldn't advocate for male infants, and it should solely be the responsibility of men.

Have you lost your marbles?

Find me a board where men are up in arms about this?

Have you done a 30 second search on Google??

It’s not the same (practically) but it fails the same moral test. They are both done, without consent, for no benefit to the recipient.

Excellent news - no-one on this thread is doing that. Phew!

I’m not sure who’s campaigning or who’s not but it’s irrelevant to this conversation. I know 100% if I suggested chopping off our baby boys foreskins, my DP would fight me until the end of the earth to stop it happening. In exactly the same way he’d fight to stop punching them in the face. It’s the same. You might not think it is (if you’ve been conditioned to think it’s ok) but it’s the same.

Please, please don’t conflate FGM with male circumcision. The level of barbarity and inherent misogyny of FGM is in a completely different stratosphere.

Male circumcision still allows men to fully function but the ideology behind it is warped AF. What holy creator demands this? Why? You want to be ‘clean’? Easy. Learn to wash your cock and teach it to your sons.

Yes, I agree pps worried too much. I wasn't responding to the OP, I replied to later FGM posts. I think it's wisest to keep them separate.

No there is no moral argument. But as we all know, women are the gatekeepers to health so it largely falls to them to keep everyone safe. If men stood up and campaigned against male circumcision then maybe they could also campaign against FGM.

Exactly, and I’ll say it AGAIN. If this wasn’t a common cultural / religious practice and someone suggested it, WE’D PUT THEM IN JAIL.

This is key imo, these infants are partly being mutilated bc of their mothers & partly bc of their fathers.
I can't get my head round men, who ought to know how badly it could affect these boys, encouraging it. Women should know, but I can see it's a bit easier to be swayed when all the men are saying it was fine for them. Otoh men who had it done as infants may well not remember the trauma. & so the brutal tradition continues. ..
Besides, this isn't feminism, but AIBU. It's not solely for women's issues!

Actually not necessarily accurate. Some men can have issues from scarring if they had an infection. There are also men who suffer hypersensitivity from having no foreskin.

However, if you re-read the op, there was no comparison or equivalence claimed to FGM - was it just the mention that was enough?

Is it ok if it's not mentioned in any way or will that result in "what about FGM" posts?

FGM is fully illegal under all circumstances and all age groups in the UK, quite rightly. It's certainly relevant to bring up the difficulty in bringing prosecutions, but not relevant in whether a ban on elective male child circumcision is desirable or achievable which is what the post was about.

You’ll never find “real” data about the FGM carried out as most of it is underground.

WRT male circumcision- outwith medical reasons it’s a cultural practice. And who determines cultural practices - oh that’s right, men.

This is irrelevant to how appropriate it is for women to be doing it. There is no moral arguement for not doing something because someone else also hasn’t.