Circumcision should be banned.

Why are we applying religious traditions, from a few thousands of years ago, to modern day living, when every day life has so very obviously changed and advanced? Its like when people talk about the seeming positives of these ancient, archaic religions and say, in their defence, things like „”my religion gives women rights” etc etc. But we are in 2025. There are robust human rights, enshrined in law, giving all human beings, including women and children, basic fundamental freedoms and rights. And yet, given all of this, we permit these ancient religious laws, thousands of years later, dictate certain rules around modern day living? How is that right?

The point I was trying to make was this: if that's the definition of child abuse - causing children pain unnecessarily, all parents are abusers (including you, if you're a parent). There's no parent alive who hasn't deliberately caused their child pain. Had a divorce? You caused your child pain. Got into a different relationship? Pain. Had a sibling? Probably pain as well (though of course it has benefits as could being in a happier relationship). My point isn't that circumcision doesn't cause pain, it's that looking at it from such a narrow viewpoint is too simplistic

Edited to add: even correcting a child's behaviour is likely to cause then pain. So a more nuanced argument against circumcision would hold more water and likely influence more people against the practice...which I guess is the whole point rather than being inflammatory for it's own sake

The unnecessary mutilation of a child's genitals should always be illegal.

There's something really fucking weird about how humans have come to view this as an acceptable way to treat children.

I suppose I agree to an extent. No parent perfectly protects their children 100% of the time, that’s surely true. I suppose whereas o think of circumcision as being such an ‘active’ choice (because it’s not part of my culture) I am perhaps judging it more harshly. Perhaps if the default was to circumcise then I’d think of it differently.

There is a world of difference between doing your best day to day and getting things wrong which inadvertently ‘harm’ your children and deliberately subjecting them to a medically unnecessary surgical procedure which will permanently affect them though, isn’t there?

It's a fair point though, isn't it.

Deliberately causing pain to an unconsenting child for no good reason is a pretty good example of abuse.

Just try to argue otherwise.

Yes it should be banned, because banning things always make things better.

A small aside. Should they turn out to be transsexuals and want MTF surgery, if circumcised, penile inversion isn't possible, which apparently gives a better result than scrotal inversion.

You might want to read the thread re your assertion that it causes no long term harm, several posters have shared information that shows that’s clearly incorrect - perhaps not all men will suffer long term effects, perhaps the majority won’t, but you can’t say it causes no harm ever.

There is a HUGE difference between male circumcision (done safely and with anesthetic) and FGM. Anyone conflating the two lacks any credence. Male circumcision is an very significant religious and cultural practice AND does not cause any long term harm to men. I’m not ‘for’ it and haven’t had any personal part in it, but banning it would be an extreme level of religious intolerance without just cause.

In my family we call this "male genital mutilation."

Ah well, if that's how you think...

True but lots of parents harm their kids unnecessarily. Does that make them all abusers? Lots of things we all do as parents has been proven to be harmful, including the relationships with their dads or other men. Our job choices, childcare choices etc I think most parents are doing their best, though they cause harm along the way. Doesn't make all parents abusers in my book to be honest

*Edited for spelling

No one here is talking about what adult women think about adult men’s dicks. We’re discussing whether it’s ok to chip a bit of skin off a newborn baby gif no medical purpose.

White woman's burden hanging heavily today?

@Porcuporpoise

Your assumption that I am white is quite telling!

Just to add, Steinem doesn't support circumcision. She was just quoting an argument that some pro circumcision people used, but concludes that there's no proved increase in pleasure, despite a few doctors' claims, & a lot of cons. While her historical analysis can be sketchy, I think she's right that the influence of patriarchy in religions is a major cause : setting men apart as superior, but in a painful way that ensures they conform to the dictates of God & male leaders.

no lifelong downsides? at all? not one?

ok.

thats incorrect but go off

White woman's burden hanging heavily today?

although I don’t have first hand experience, I can definitely imagine these are difficult conversations. I’m sure that millions of perfectly good parents have circumcised their babies because it’s the cultural / religious norm. There but for the grace of god go I. However, if harming your child unnecessarily is abuse and someone asks you whether that makes those millions of people child abusers…what’s the answer? I’m struggling to find an answer that’s not ‘yes’

Plus just to say, this comment is unnecessarily inflammatory. I'd delete it if I were you

@Redoubchair

Why on earth would I ask for a comment I 100% stand by to be deleted? I find people who mutilate their children without medical need to be 'inflammatory'. So, they stop doing it to their children and I'll ask for my post to be deleted. Deal?

Tbf girls do tend to be more likely to dress skimpily on average than boys. Though I don't agree, I don't have an issue w religious morality against skimpy clothes, as long as it's evenly applied to both sexes. & not used to victim blame...

I'm not sure how enlightened the US is tbh.. Eg in 2013 1/3 of the population thought homosexuality should be illegal. Look at the influence of Bible-is-the-literal-word-of-God style Christianity, creationism etc. There's a lot of regional variations ofc, but I think overall the culture of religion can discourage critical thinking. Across the board they seem prone to getting swept up in riots & extreme thinking.

Some relatives of the grooming gangs blamed the girls for leading their men astray and the parents of the girls, not the groomers themselves.