10 years for carrying a knife

Neither of which are insuperable objections.

*My husband, a Scots an, wears a Sgian Dubh (small knife) in the top of his socks when he wears Highland Dress and he is legally entitled to fo so.\8

Sikhs carry a kirpan. Well not all of them, but the Khalsa do, and as above it is legal to wear one.

An arsehole with a knife almost took away the life of one of the most precious people in my world - this was a random attack and was before knife crime was what it is now.

Anyone carrying a knife should absolutely get 10 years minimum in prison for carrying a knife - there’s just no excuse, no justification. They seriously need to bring in prison ships while we have the problem of overcrowding in prisons in the UK.

The existing work to help prevent people carrying and using knives isn’t working as there is just no deterrent and the UK feels lawless to me. Bring back stop and search (although please don’t be racist and only stop black boys) and also introduce 10 year prison sentences for knife carrying, and life sentences or ideally the death penalty for taking a life, and see the numbers fall drastically.

If might sound dramatic to some, but remember one of the dearest people in my life was only just saved from an evil knife attack and I wouldn’t wish anyone else had to experience the same awful events. Something drastic needs to be done soon.

As for increasing the sentence to a mandatory ten years for a first offence including for young offenders - well, campaign for it, if you like. Here's the details for the Sentencing Council and if you want to persuade them that forgetful* possession of a bladed article should carry a greater penalty than a one-punch murder often does, then go for it. I'm sure plenty of people will be calling for the same.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/sentencing-and-the-council/contact-us/

*forgetfulness is not a defence - presumably you'd want to address that in any submissions you make. So that the various Mumsnetters who want to cut up birthday cakes or peel potatoes in holiday lets will not be sent down for a decade if they forget they've left the knife in the car the day after the holiday.

Yes, there is. Chefs, Crafters, think leather workers, etc, How are they supposed to get from A to B without carrying the tools of their trade? These are some reasons where it's perfectly legal to carry a knife.

• taking knives you use at work to and from work
• taking knives to a gallery or museum to be exhibited
• the knife is going to be used for theatre, film, television, historical reenactment or religious purposes, e.g. the kirpan some Sikhs carry

What you can't do is use self-defence as a reason for carrying one.

My husband, a Scots an, wears a Sgian Dubh (small knife) in the top of his socks when he wears Highland Dress and he is legally entitled to fo so.
Banning the carrying of knives for any reason in public won't stop knife crime. After all, they banned guns yet there are still those to be had.
Let's be clear on this. Knife murders happen because a human has decided to stab someone. That is where the blame squarely lies. With the person wielding the knife.
That's the angle we have to tackle.

What a shame nobody thought through all this before and got it codified into law.

Oh hang on, they did - s.139 Criminal Justice Act 1988. Admittedly it's only been in force for 35 years or so, so I appreciate you may not have had the opportunity to look it up.

Op, read the existing laws on carrying knives. They're already doing a lot of what you seem to think we need to do.
They allow for exceptions.

I definitely bring sharp knives and a decent pan to holiday apartments - the ones they tend to have are dire. It isn't a ridiculous scenario.

People who are outdoors more than you seem to be definitely need knives for various reasons. In Finland or France it's more commonplace than in the UK but laws have to be fit for rural areas just as much as for London.

It's not the knives that are the issue. We already have plenty of adequate legislation. It's the lack of following up on concerns such as Prevent referrals, and also lack of adequate educational settings. He was moved from pillar to post and not at all supported. Many children aren't supported and don't stab people ofc but it can't have helped.

The boy who was arrested a few days ago for stabbing to death a 12 year old schoolboy and violently assaulting several elderly people was 14 years old. I guess if he'd been found carrying a knife before he had murdered an adolescent for his bike some people would have been happy for him to claim he was carrying it for his own protection and let off with a warning.

Some people have an incredibly naive and masochistic attitude towards crime but why should the consequences of that be inflicted on the rest of society? If a 14 year old can't demonstrate a valid reason for carrying a knife or if they are carrying something like a zombie knife or machete then they should be sent to prison; maybe not for 10 years, but there should be custodial consequences.

If Rudakubana had been locked up for the two occasions when he was carrying a knife with violent intent then maybe he wouldn't have been free to commit an atrocity.

14 yo kids locked up for 10 years?

I'm out because saying what I think would get me banned.

Giving prison sentences to reduce knife crime is not a new idea. Glasgow razor gangs were much reduced when the Sheriff for Glasgow at the time announced anyone before him on trial of wounding with a knife would be given ten years.

The weekend after that first sentence was handed out, Glasgow had it's first weekend without a slashing in years.

Who does that honestly? 100,000 people manage to camp and survive in Glastonbury for a week with no knives. Self catering in a village hall or similar? I don't think Glastonbury attenders are noted for preparing vegetables/

Pruning knives are serrated, curved and not a stabby knife. No, that's a pruning saw. A pruning knife is non-serrated and very sharp. Usually with a less than 3inch blade and often folding, so exempt under the current knife-carrying law. Many gardeners are now using hori-hori knives - a long fixed blade, usually sharp on one edge, serrated on the other. It may not be designed as an offensive weapon but it certainly has potential to be used as one.

Again who does this? But fair enough. I can put in an exemption for those clearly travelling to a holiday destination with half a car filled with household items or a suitcase filled with clearly kitchen stuff coming back from uni for example. I always take my favourite cooking knife with me. But the more you allow exemptions, the more your law looks like the current law. You are simply asking for an increase in the sentence.

The mention of diving knives reminded me of caving knives, an essential bit of safety kit.

For clarity I am talking about people walking around in public spaces, or on public transport with stabby knives who are carrying very little else. I really don’t believe it’s beyond the wit of man to differentiate here. I'm glad you've clarified that. It wasn't clear from your OP.

The current law says "The maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife or weapon illegally is either 4 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both. You’ll get a prison sentence if you’re convicted of carrying a knife or weapon illegally more than once." You're not proposing anything different. You simply want to increase the penalties.

In what prisons?

There are reasons

You have just bought it and are taking it home
You are cooking a meal elsewhere and carrying a sharp knife with you
You are on your way to the allotment and are carrying your pruning knife with you.
You are on your way to a holiday apartment and are taking your good kitchen knives rather than rely on the usually blunt ones in the apartment

Was he 14 at the time? [2019 and he's 18 now]. Are you proposing we sending 14 year old boys to prison?

Dunblane?

Police use discretion all the time.

I grew up in an affluent leafy suburb, mostly white area in the 90’s. There was a sudden shift and the boys started carrying knives to protect themselves. The more had knives the more felt they had to have knives.

i think we need more metal detectors for schools, we need more referral systems for gangs - not terror related but gang and (mostly) male violence (like their was pre cuts). We need to offer these young (mostly) boys more in life than county lines and postcode wars.

It's been shown time and time again that you can't make effective laws based on the knee-jerk emotional responses of the public to a tragedy.

It's also been shown in research again and again that tougher sentencing doesn't prevent crime.

Ten years in prison just for carrying an object is absurd.

No.

Say it was someone who for whatever reason had a table knife in his pocket when stopped by police. Would a jury convict if he was facing prison for 10 years? No.

@FeelingFeline - I was trying to point out the absurdity of saying there should be a black and white position on carrying a knife, but then suggesting police could have discretion to decide why someone is carrying a knife. It makes no sense.

Such a witty sense of humour to lighten up a tragic and raw topic👏

We can assume the OP means dangerous knives not plastic picnic knives? At least that was my interpretation. Some posters love to be contrary simply for the sake of it, never mind them and their not so clever comments OP.