to feel like we were scammed into going to University?

It’s all about ambition though. We opened kits of new unis in the 60s plus the polytechnics. It opened up the possibility of uni. Many went who would not have had a chance before. By 1970 it was around 8% and now we are pushing 38%. We need a halfway house! Colleges of HE and the polys used to provide this. Now they are unis. We need a rethink. We don’t need 100 unis offering English and History. We don’t need the volumes of students we have. We do need courses for bright enough 18 year olds that are allied to careers. Then move to a degree afterwards if necessary.

The big accountancy firms take most with degrees. In the rest of the sector, there are options. However plenty of firms want the brightest and best but they don’t get them from former colleges of HE.

I had similar experience, but I do wonder, from talking to friends with older kids, if the social side of it isn't much less of "a thing" now. So many seem to go home all the time or commute. I get the reasons but I think university as one of life's few opportunities to really "jump the tracks" as I did isn't what it was.

@InDogweRust I think Theresa large element of that involved- 18 year olds don't always think logically and plenty think they will get access to cash, tons of fun and piss ups and no parents checking on them. It's not the course for plenty of them, ( not all of course) it's the lifestyle .

I actually admire my 17 year old who ditched A levels , got a really nice local apprenticeship in networks and IT and was in a shared house ( mix of students and professionals) two weeks before he was18 - He got the fun lifestyle, whilst still learning and earning

I couldn't do my job without a degree. Earn ok and enjoy it. Well woth going to uni for me!

Why is the interest rate on student loans (specifically Plan 2) SUBSTANTIALLY higher than average mortgage rates if not for pure profiteering?

And people encouraged 17-18 year olds to make this financial decision without any real pushback or even "back of a fag packet" calculations.

The only people who benefit from a Plan 2 loan are those who were never going to earn a lot and went into uni just to put off work or have a fun experience.

It's really discouraging to essentially pay more only because you work hard. I'll never clear mine off despite paying it twice over if I stay on my current high-ish salary for the next 30 years. Let that sink in.

Uni was brilliant for me. I will never ever regret my time there. Opened so many doors for me and met such brilliant people. 3 years of absolute laughs as well!

@3oldladiesstuckinalavatory

I can remember in the late 1960s a lad in our road on a council estate getting into
University. Every one was buzzing because back then it was a great achievement as not many went and only the best went . Certainly not many from our background. Back then going to University was a golden ticket to a golden future

It's the test result which is statistically-significant or not, not the sample size.

You're probably right in practical terms that the statistical power would be too low to run the test with a reasonably low risk of a Type II error. But in principle you only need two observations for a paired t-test, for example.

I love Uni and have a job that is linked to my degree. I wouldn't earn as much without it. I also made friends for life. I went to uni in 1998 though, so over a decade before you. With the current costs of uni, it makes me think twice about encouraging my children to go.

The point of education is to make one a critical thinker and to enhance your life. At least this was the ideal in the mid-twentieth century (based on Plato, I think). Previous to that, education was always about a job - which is why Kit Marlowe hared off to Cambridge (he could train to be a vicar - though he didn't).
Education, though, is partly to open horizons and widen experience by giving pupils/students a knowledge-base with which to think, and university should expand a specific knowledge base. It is also about getting a job and earning a living, which also requires a knowledge base. The carpenter learning how to saw wood, construct a floor etc is not learning a 'skill' he is acquiring the knowledge of how to do that - the skill bit is how well he uses his knowledge.
University can provide a path to a job. But so can a trade apprenticeship. Both are valid. I think the plethora of degrees in not very useful subjects is sad. I also think it sad that the past and current governments thought/think that only subjects that lead to a high-earning job or are STEM subjects are worth studying, and wish to defund e.g. arts and humanities degrees - notwithstanding a society cannot exist without the humanities and arts, which are the substance beneath the economic and technical infrastructure - and also, both earn the UK a shedload of money and are significant parts of the economy.

Yes you can, you have to have professional exams which are higher than a degree.

AAT is starting point, you can get apprenticeships, entry level roles when starting it. I take people on all the time. You would have to have basic qualifications, so maths and English GCSE, usually 5 in total above a 4, some start their AAT after A levels. Most I get have high GCSE grades and fly through the early exams.

Depends what you consider high salary also I guess. In the real world that's £50/60k upwards (outside of london) in MN world that's £300k.

It's just my experience, it's not the same for everyone.

@AllyDally

Accountancy? You don't need a degree, quicker to go via AAT then professional exams, you have to do the professional exams after a degree anyway. You also get no work experience doing a degree, I would take AAT qualified over a degree every day when I employ my staff as they generally have 3 years accounting/bookkeeping work experience by that point
But you aren't going to get into one of the big accountancy firms this way I wouldn't think.
And how would you even get the job you are doing whilst studying without any qualifications?

We are the same age OP and I have always felt this way. I always say by going to uni all I did was spent £30k on some new friends.

At my sixth form like you say if you were vaguely academic it felt like you were given no alternative but to go to uni, like it was your only option. I did an arts degree that has no relevance or use to my life whatsoever and so wish I had gone straight into work at 18 or done something practical - I am training as a children’s social worker now but something like that was never even brought up as an option.

You are supposed to have a trajectory for your life figured out at 16? Madness. I will be making sure my DC know of the wide range of careers they could go into not all of which involve uni and support them whatever they choose to do.

This is just too much of a generalisation.

It is absolutely worth going to university to study some degrees, even if they don't lead directly to a job. Fine Art, History, English Literature......all of those sort academic subjects don't lead directly to a job but are still well worth doing.

I have a job that I couldn't do without a degree (STEM subject so actually need a degree to attain professional status). But much more than that university was my passport OUT!

I had a difficult childhood, single parent out of work and struggling on benefits, first person in my family to go to university, no real prospects for a secure long term job where I grew up. Going to university exposed me to the rest of the world, people/jobs/things I'd never even heard of and didn't know where available to me.

The only thing I regret is that academic subjects were pushed. I really wish I'd done a degree in nursing as it would have suited my personality much better but that's a small aside. For some people university is a massive opportunity not just for learning.

Strangely op my view is completely different. I went to a really poor comp in the 80s, most left at 16 in 1985. I know of only one who went to uni at 18. We didn't have any encouragement to go to uni, several of my year got degrees later, several should have been pushed to go (not me I was too lazy and home life would have made it impossible).

It's also what degree you did. I was in management in an insurance company and did the 3 month review of a new starter, who stated she should have been on 33% more wages "by now...I've got a degree". I mentioned that graduate scheme and the possibility of me talking to management and asked what her degree was in. "Dance". I pissed myself.

I think that part of the issue is taking degrees that don't fundamentally offer that much to an employer. Plus having the attitude that a degree is a golden ticket and no further work is required...it was this last issue that really got to me...you can't expect to manage the company if you haven't got a clue how it works, how to manage others and how business works. That takes years of actual experience not months.

Eh? What a stupid post. Completely different points. My point is that you could be well educated in the past without “going to university”, and many we’re. Nothing to do with the illiterate people you meet in your job. They would not have gone to university even now. 🙄.

What do you do now, OP?
I went to Uni, and that paved way to a long career in IT. I’m in a senior leadership role and others at my level and above all have degrees. Some have masters and PhD too.

So did a lot of the illiterate, poverty stricken dysfunctional homeless men and women who use the overnight shelter I volunteer at...

Yes I agree. Same timings as you. Luckily I have paid off my loan so at least don't have it hanging over me.

I really feel for my siblings. They went to uni 2 and 4 years later when the fees rose dramatically, doubt they will pay off the full loans.

On the other hand it was one of the best times of my life from a coming of age point of view. I'd feel sad for DC not to experience that.

No one has to go to Uni. It’s free choice. So, no, it’s all upfront and no scam. 😉

Paying according to what you earn, not what you owe is nuts from a psychological pov.

It basically makes you think twice about incremental increases in responsibility or pay. It encourages people to be happy with the low wage economy, struggling along.

If you had to pay a guaranteed interest rate beginning six months after graduation, there would be a lot of people thinking twice about university in the first place, a lot of people looking long and hard at subjects they studied if they decided to go, and a lot of pressure on employers to offer starting pay to graduates that wasn't insulting.

Sounds like the story of my life.

Did very well at school (early 2000s) and the full expectation was to go to Uni. I wanted to be a doctor, but wasn't prepared for the interviews, so was rejected. Had nervous breakdown #1, and scuffed up my A-levels. Then went through clearing and chose the wrong degree for the wrong reasons. Hated it, struggled, then had nervous breakdown #2 in my 2nd/3rd year. Barely scraped a 3rd. Never had a job that paid more than minimum wage in my life. Never bothered pursuing an ADHD or autism diagnosis, but it's clear I've got one, the other, or both.

Fortunately I've since found my way into the NHS, and I'll be applying to do an apprenticeship to start September 2026 later this year. But it does feel like my only hope of any future advancement. No way I could ever afford to self fund another degree. And with my CV and "degree" what hope have I got competing for a better paid job against virtually anyone else?

Accountancy? You don't need a degree, quicker to go via AAT then professional exams, you have to do the professional exams after a degree anyway. You also get no work experience doing a degree, I would take AAT qualified over a degree every day when I employ my staff as they generally have 3 years accounting/bookkeeping work experience by that point

If you completed sixth form in 2009 you would have been arriving at the work/ university crossroads at exactly the time the global economy was in meltdown.

University made sense back then (and still does) as long as students were at highly rated institutions and studying subjects that were likely to lead to jobs that paid well. All others were badly advised.

There are systemic issues in the UK that make "university for all" problematic. The main one is that it's a low wage economy.

Another is the changing of terms of loans, making financial planning extremely difficult given the low wage problem. Basically, student debt being packaged and sold will ultimately hurt the economy, but robbing Peter to pay Paul is the MO of the Exchequer for a long time and there's no indication that's going to change.

Another huge issue is the lack of a proper vocational alternative to universities (thinking of the Institutes of Technology in Ireland here). Apprenticeships might have been a cool idea back in 1910 but they're not now.

And back to money - UK universities don't have the endowments they need in order to offer need based write offs of tuition and loving costs they way US universities do.

There's a tragic lack of attention to financial detail in the UK university sector on the part of administrators and students alike.