to feel like we were scammed into going to University?

Definitely - and young people still are steered in that direction when lots of them shouldn't be.

I was one of the people who was more academic, but never wanted to follow that path. I always knew what I wanted to do, and that was build up my own business - which I did, when I graduated.

I had an absolutely amazing time at uni so I can't regret going, as I enjoyed my course and made some fantastic friends. But as far as my career goes, it's done me absolutely no good whatsoever.

my 26 year old son was saying this only last week. He got a 1st in Maths and Finance in 2019 then worked for 3 years in an unrelated role (as the City had shut down due to Covid) before doing a Masters in Data Science (distinction) 2023 before getting a role in a start up company. Got made redundant last Sept but can't find a job anywhere as they all want experience which he can't get without a job. Wishes he hadn't gone to Uni.

I won't be directing my kids towards uni. I mean I had a great time but my degree has fuck all to do with what I do. I paid off my loan by age 35.

DC3, the brightest of our DCs in terms of examination results, refused point blank to go to university.

She now out earns her siblings and is the only own to own her own home.

Yes, it was plenty fun but I have never used my degree. Instead I earn well working in a career using a diploma I studied for after university. Thankfully I live in Scotland so I have no debts to pay off for it.

I think that the cost of going to uni today means that kids place a lot of emphasis on the university experience (might as well if they are going into lots of debt ) rather than the course itself. It’s sold as where academic people go and have a good time.

I have 3 young adult kids and they’ve all picked differently. Dc1 went straight to work. Dc2 went to uni and dc3 is currently doing a college course that leads to a specific career.

I think some 16 year olds like my dc3 need a gap year before taking their next steps. He didn’t know until he was age 17 what he wanted to study next and made the mistake of going into his school sixth form for a year for social reasons which seemed harmless to him. It’s ok doing level 3 qualifications or training if you know what you want to do but I know that it’s not unusual to know your strengths/interests but not know what to do.

You were pushed to uni because leavers destinations help create a reputation for the school. It makes them look like good places for future pupils to go to (especially if it’s a comp)

I don’t think that any government or school is going to be brave enough to admit that uni is really for people in certain subjects who need it for next steps (healthcare, lawyers, engineers, future academics…) especially in the current situation where many believe that too many visas are being issued to overseas students.

I agree OP it was the thing to aspire to and if you didn’t go you were painted negatively. I might still go to uni again but I’d choose something that would be better for the workforce and more lucrative. I think it’s hard to get through to teenagers but I feel there could have been more promotion of more worthwhile degrees while also promoting the idea that you can be successful without one and there are many paths even if you could get into uni doesn’t mean you should or need to.

I think Blair/Brown were correct in expanding Higher Education - they could see the way the wind was blowing, that other economies across Asia were on the rise and that to compete we'd need a higher proportion of people who had completed tertiary education.

Unfortunately the economic crash in 2008 means that although we have more graduates, wages across the board other than at the very top are incredibly low - we managed to avoid currency collapse, but only because we started printing money. And we haven't stopped since.

Obviously this affects all employees, not just graduates, but graduates because of their sheer numbers don't have the scarcity value of trades. Look at what graduate wages were in 2004 - they are much the same as now, but they're worth 20 years of inflation including three years of close to stagflation less.

But, back in 2009, your teachers, careers advisors etc, could not have predicted such a long slow currency devaluation so they weren't wrong to advise as they did. It just didn't work out the way they thought it would.

Yep! It was assumed you'd go to University, no discussion of anything else at sixth form and from parents too. It was sold as if you don't go to University you won't be successful which is definitely not true.

I think there’s an enormous amount of of people that trot of to uni do tin pot degrees leave with debt and no clear plan what to do

id say it’s a 50/50 for they way it’s goes

our friends kids2 of them extremely successful one already cleared debt and other not far off but they had a very clear plan of what they wanted to do and what they needed to get there
neighbours kids went because I think it was drummed into to go did a subject they liked not particularly revlant to any career they expressed an interest in and are now saddled with debt no idea what they want to do and working minimum wage jobs
tbh think the parents just wanted to. Boast they had a kid at uni

I don't know, I do get the points made on the thread and do have sympathy for people finding themselves in a lot of student debt, but to present the opposing point of view...

I think university was absolutely the right thing to do for me and my siblings even though none of us have 'used' our degrees as such in that we all are now in careers that don't require any specific degree, and I hope my kids will be pushed to go to uni if they're academically capable too. For a start I think higher education is a really worthwhile goal in itself and doesn't for me have to be vocational or intrinsically linked to employment, I wouldn't want to live in a world where a deeper understanding and knowledge of arts/culture, history or science was something only for the very privileged or academics. Plus I am strongly of the belief that even a non vocational degree does give a lot of workplace skills, not just critical thinking and analysis, ability to write, research, present ideas clearly and logically etc but also the 'uni life' experience, I know a lot of people think about it as being just wall to wall partying but for me it's about living away from home, managing your own time, budget etc and yes learning to balance fun times and friends etc with work. I personally think it's far better that kids get the chance to soft transition into adulthood by living away from home but in a relatively safe and supportive environment compared to either having to be chucked into the world of 'proper' work and living alone or in shared housing at 18 (and there is no way I and my siblings or most of my friends were ready for that) or stay living at home for much longer presumably being supported by parents while a career gets off the ground, that sounds fraught with difficulties to me ... Apprenticeships and so on are great options but do just push a lot of the responsibility onto employers and there aren't enough of them to go around if all the unis shut up shop tomorrow, and think of the loss to the UK economy and reputation if there was no or drastically reduced research and academic work going on (which is partially funded by undergraduates at the moment), I think we'd all end up meeting the gap through increased taxation if that was the case...

I think it was abundantly clear by 2010 that too many people were going to uni. I knew of people who had graduated and couldn't get jobs outside of retail. It influenced my choice when I went to uni in 2012 significantly - chose a degree with a bursary, fees paid and a job at the end.
DH works in admissions for an admittedly not very good uni now and they're desperate for students, accept anyone and most just go into further studying or completely unrelated jobs.

To follow, I work in an industry where hands on experience coming up through the ranks is much better preparation for management and senior management than anything on paper would be.

I don’t necessarily agree. My career wouldn’t be possible without a degree, even those friends who didn’t need a degree are doing very well for themselves and easily paying back the debt.

I agree OP. I went to sixth form back in the year 2000, knowing that I didn't want to go to Uni, but I had to fight hard against the school's insistence that it was basically the only option.

In the end I got special permission not to attend the weekly sixth form assembly as all they talked about every week for months was Uni and UCAS forms and I wasn't prepared to sit through it weekly when I had no lessons until the afternoon that day!

And, if you want a high flying career, after accumulating tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt you are somehow expected to fund yourself whilst you work unreasonably long hours, for free, to prove you are up to it.

Some industries are no longer expected to pay to train staff to do the jobs they need.

The whole thing is a scam.

It's robbing young people of work experience, future financial security and we have turned education into a business.

I don't think anyone should ever be pushed into going to university. If you're not enjoying the course, it won't serve you well. I know plenty of people who haven't used their degrees because it wasn't their passion. Either they were told to go to university or were just too young and picked something they thought they'd like. Many courses are not what they appear to be. There's usually far more work, research and time needed to complete assignments. You really do have to love the subject.

I went to uni in my late 30s. It was the best thing I've ever done. Not only did it build my confidence, but it shone a light in the direction I wanted to go career-wise. I would've been too young to go to uni at 18. I had no idea what I wanted to do back then.

@peachgreen te ongoing delusion that the student loan isn’t a problem is such a big part of this problem.

Having a huge and growing debt hanging over you is bad enough - but the payments are actually quite significant when you look at your disposable income after housing costs etc.

I’ve got people in my team paying several thousand pounds a year in loan repayments. Most professionals will.

Over a lifetime this will amount to a six figure sum, a huge amount when considered in context of pension savings, a mortgage etc

51% tax rate over £50k - what kind of incentive is that?

Depends what you want to do of course!

But I agree it’s not always the best thing for everyone and needs serious thought.

Things like apprenticeship degrees seem like a great idea.

”The Uni lifestyle” also isn’t for everyone, some people really hate it and are happier working and earning, and enjoying their evenings and weekends all the same. And you do have to study so it’s not “putting off work” in the way people sometimes think.

He has a point. I don´t use my degree in my job, but I was told I was hired because of it. My old boss said, when she has two candidates with similar abilities, she´ll take the one with the degree.

It's not just the debt...if you go straight into work, you don't just avoid the debt, you have three extra years worth of salary which if you're living at home and save, can give you a nice headstart in terms of buying your own home.

Uni is great if you want to study a subject in depth and have opportunity to travel, meet lots of different people and to try loads of extra curricular societies and is not just about getting a job. Those that have done degree apprenticeships miss out on the social side and the coursework side but obviously have the plus of being paid and no debt. Horses for courses .

Only your last sentence is true.

And people are still paying their loans monthly or yearly - and now with a much higher rate of interest than when they took it out - even if they don't finish paying it off. They don't pay it off because the interest rate is high and salaries are low, it's not a good thing.

I don't think student debt is anything to worry about. You never pay it off at a rate that's unaffordable – it's really more like a tax. The only time I ever notice it is when I get a bonus – it's a bit annoying then that so much of it gets swallowed up by the SLC! But again, it's never unaffordable. And I believe higher education is a privilege, not a right, so you SHOULD have to pay for it when you can afford to do so – and the current systems ensures (well, is supposed to ensure, although cost of living is making it less and less viable for lower income families) that everyone has the chance to go to university whether they can afford it up front or not.

Having said that, I don't think university is the right path for everyone, and I will certainly be encouraging DD to think carefully. And I would be delighted if she wanted to do some kind of vocational course instead as I think those leave you far more employable in the long term. Even if she is set on attending university I would hope that she would take at least one gap year to get some real world experience and make sure her subject choice is what she really wants, rather than her just being funnelled from one stage of education to the next. The people I know who are happiest in their careers did training later in life, once they'd worked out who they were and what they really wanted to do. I wish I had been able to do that, but having already been to university in my teens meant retraining was unaffordable.

I’m a similar age to you OP and I agree that it was very misguided - although I’m not sure id say the intention was to scam people.

At the time, I think there was a clear link that graduate = higher wages, and so people thought that this was the best opportunity for young people.

I also think we were being advised by people where this literally had been true for their generation (where fewer had been to university) - and in an environment where ‘working with your hands’ was sneered at. ‘You’ll end up flipping burgers’, seeing trades as working class jobs etc.

It was (and continues to be IMO) hugely misguided to encourage people to pursue qualifications that have limited / no value.

There was a period where a degree was essential just to get an interview - but that’s behind us now I think, and employers are more interested in experience.

I also think the debt situation was totally missold (and continues to be missold) to people. Particularly on the newer loans where the interest is so high.

I will not just blindly be advocating to my child they must go to university - and I am from a family where it was an expectation.