DS doesn’t want us to contact him while he is travelling

'Emotional neglect' - quite vague thing and seems to come up a lot on MN and on here. I'm sure my youngest says I don't pay him enough attention but I really, really do and others in the family know I do.

But in this case, with only OP's version of events to go on (which will inevitably be skewed towards her own point of view), an awful lot of people have suggested that actually OP was or might have been "emotionally neglectful" of her son and prioritised her daughters over him.

If your youngest doesn't think you pay him enough attention then (assuming he's not a young child) do you listen to why he thinks that, or just dismiss him?

Very much this.
Parents aren't perfect.
'Emotional neglect' - quite vague thing and seems to come up a lot on MN and on here. I'm sure my youngest says I don't pay him enough attention but I really, really do and others in the family know I do.

I do think these perceptions come down to personality types. Perhaps the more sensitive/anxious has an insatiable need for support that perhaps a parent is just not able to give all the time as there are other children in the family. People with a tendency to depression do have an external locus of control often which means they believe a lot of what happens to them, especially bad things, is due to things outside themselves and their control, i.e. other people's actions.

We need to realise that their truth is not necessarily the ultimate truth but that there is grey and not everything is black and white. Parents are fallible too and we need to be able to say sorry.

Well luckily the son has left and isn't coming back home, because every time he did there his ex was sitting on his sofa laughing with his sister and parents, so the OP doesn't have to ban the ex now does she? Which is perfect, so long as she never wants to have any kind of relationship with her own son. The ex can fill the gap though, so that's fine.

I agree.
I also feel your first 'big' breakup, even if the relationship wasn't that long, is often so intense. I remember the first heartbreak in late teens feeling so intense and painful.

Looking back in my 30s I can see things differently but at the time it was just consuming

Like, what would happen if OP said, ‘DD1, I don’t want to hear another word out of you about Exname and DS. It’s not your place to be so over-involved, stay out of it.’

Im really fascinated by this!

Mmm... what I thought really!

He has the benefit of hindsight over his childhood that you couldn't possibly have had even if he hadn't been your first child.

You make decisions based on the information you have at the time and with the best intentions, like giving someone else a bigger room based on the stuff they have and how they use that room.

You can't go back in time and make these things fair, you can't be in three places at once if there are only two of you, or go and set lower expectations for him once you are onto kid three and realise the higher expectations were a bit unrealistic, or go back and treat a 15 year old boy like he is an 8 year old girl...

I'd ask him what he thinks you should have done in some of those situations? Not attended DD's nativity or piano exam, when you did attend his? Left an 8 year old to walk home alone?

It is very easy to say 'you should have done differently, you shouldn't have done x or y or z' but if he can't say 'you should have done a or b' and have those be practical suggestions... he really needs to get over himself!

As far as the ex girlfriend is concerned... I don't think you should be banning from your house and your DD's home, a friend she has had from being a toddler. Your DD lives there. Your DS does not. He really cannot dictate who visits the house he doesn't live in, and hasn't for some time!

OP may have known ex since she was 3.

But this was her son's home. Not the ex's home. Yes, she could have set boundaries like Daughter would have to see her friend outside the family home. She could have stopped Daughter 1 the second she tried to talk shit about her brother. This enmeshment is not healthy, in fact it's so unhealthy that it's been used to push Son out of the family home.

Son sees her "neutrality" as prioritizing Daughter 1 and his ex. So he's pulled very much away and it's likely permanent.

Now OP says Daughter 1 will "kick off" if boundaries are put up with her friend. Too freaking bad.

I don't know if OP sees how Daughter 1's behaviour has taken over the home. She's talked shit to her siblings with her I'm the favourite comments, talked shit about the son to his own mom, and now has OP worried about what she will do if she limits ex's time in the family home. She's manipulative and starts trouble.

OP. Nobody wants to visit their family home and see their ex there treated like they're more a part of the family than they are.

Good post, @BarbaraHoward.

Your daughter can meet the ex at her house. Her social anxiety does not trump your son's feelings on this. And I think she's using it as a stick to beat you with to keep her place as top dog in the house.

Your son has done as much as he is willing to to reassure you re his travels, I hope he has fun.

As the quieter sibling of one very prone to drama - please don't give your DD's feelings more weight just because they're louder. It's easy to do as a parent (I know I'm at risk of recreating that dynamic with my own very different DC), but it will be very hurtful to your DS. I suspect that the break up is just one of a long line of instances going back to childhood where he's been trusted to be the mature one or asked to compromise because "you know what she's like".

Get a handle on that now as you move into a different phase of your relationship with them. In our family it all came to a head around my wedding and it wasn't pretty.

You don't have to say that - although any girl who broke MY son's heart wouldn't be welcome in our house. But if the OP was that bothered, all she had to say to her was 'it's not that tactful you coming round at the moment, please don't until the dust has settled.' The reason she hasn't is because her daughter claims to have 'social anxiety' which conveniently means everyone has to do what she wants, including having the girl who cheated on her brother hanging out in his home.

You could say "I'm sorry ex, I'm not blaming you but I need to support my son and keep this home as a safe place for him. I think it would be best if you don't come round for a while, so he can have some space to heal."

Unless there are other factors (e.g. her own parents are abusive and you've been a surrogate parent to her), as a young adult she should understand that breakups change things and exes need space.

DS messaged not long ago. He gave us his flight details and the phone number of the girl he is travelling with stipulating that if he hasn't posted on instagram in a week and we have tried to message him once and not received a reply in 3 days we can use that incase he has lost his phone or similar but under no other circumstances (barring family emergency) to contact him.

Well OP, I think that’s exactly the outcome you need in order to feel less anxious about him now. It’s doable, given all you now know. And you can wish him a wonderful year and try to be happy that he is trying to help himself with his year out.

His previous sit down chat with you has led you to understand more fully where he was coming from and you can send your genuine apology and try to move forward from there, respecting his wishes and feeling better that it is all out in the open and dealt with properly. And looking forward to a fresh start when he comes home.

As for banning the Ex gf, I wouldn’t frame it in those strong terms exactly. But I would certainly sit down with her and DD and explain that you don’t wish to get involved in past details and nor do you wish to ruin their friendship but you now understand more fully that DS has really struggled with the break up and felt removed from his home and family by the more or less continuous presence of his Ex and by his parents lack of support to control that situation for him - all to such an extent that you have realised it was very wrong of you to have allowed that situation to have developed whereby Ex felt part of the household and he didn’t feel welcome at all. Say that it’s impossible to allow that situation to continue now you know about it and suggest that they could make plans to continue their friendship out of your house, (except when specifically invited by you,) so that you can reassure your DS that you fully support his feelings and he can safely return home any time without fear of discomfort which he hasn’t been able to do since the break up.

I know it seems pointless to do that now you know he is away for a year and your DD will fight against it, but it will help you I think, to feel you have acted with integrity to put things right with him. And hopefully, your DD can find a way to face her social anxiety fears if she can start to get used to being in somebody else’s house other than her own.

I do think it was careless and unthinking of Ex gf to have made herself so at home in your house after the break up, - ingratiating herself so easily, coming and going as she pleased and not being too discreet about it either.

I agree. It's not the same as a young woman he met a year ago who happened to make friends with his sister.

Yes, it really is hard, but is it worth alienating your son over?

She could have put in a boundary with her daughter, and told her that she did not want to hear one-sided gossip passed on from the ex. That would have added a level of neutrality without banning the friend.

When my partner and I were having relationship counselling as an aside my DP mentioned his jealous relationship with his DB and the counsellor said competitive relationships between siblings are often facilitated by the mother. This seems harsh and presumably could also be father? But they did say mother - we always get the blame!! In this case on reflection the mother used to phone each of her DS’ and tell them about all the amazing things the other was doing. They both worked in very different sectors one very glamorous and the other pretty mundane in comparison and this was indeed feeding the jealousy. That has stuck with me and made me think that as parents we really need to put as much effort into our children’s relationships with each other as we do with our relationship with them. This may sound obvious but I think sometimes parents can unwittingly value a close relationship with a ds or dd above the sibling relationship.

Op has known the sons Ex since she was 3 years old. She no doubt is close with her parents too. Can you imagine saying "I know we haven't argued, and I know you are best friends with my daughter, but now you aren't with my son any more, I am banning you from our house forever".......impossible situation to navigate, none of which is Op's fault.

I think it definitely can be. I think there's also an element of, if you think that having lots of money/nice holidays/stuff, is really important for you personally then, as long as you're providing your kids with that stuff, you think you've done a good job, no matter how you treat them otherwise, or how they might feel about it.

I wonder if it's a generational thing to some extent? My parents are definitely of the ilk that think sending their kids to private school makes them parents of the year/century/milllenia.

Mumsnet is an extremely materialistic place. So many posters think that if you have money, then you can't possibly have any problems. It's bizarre.

Money does not fix all problems

@Butchyrestingface "On the face of it, it does sound like he's navel gazing a bit and raking over the coals of old (possibly imagined - who can know?) injuries. However, the fact that you showed such little insight into, and therefore caused a massive dripfeed, over the issue with the ex girlfriend who has torpedoed his relationship with his sister, makes me think there's probably some justification for his feelings.

It's the issue with the ex that will have caused this recent schism and I'm still not convinced you've really taken the feedback on board about how disloyal and upsetting your 'neutrality' in the matter will have been for him. You don't need to be neutral where your own kid is concerned - you're not a high court judge on the bench at the Old Bailey.

There's a bunch of people posting to the thread in support on you who have CLEARLY not read all of your posts."

100% this. If the situation with the ex hadn't happened you may have found his other issues with fairness may not have been such a big issue, and something he moved on from. May have a grumble to friends but not a big issue
But when something big happens, like this issue with the ex it makes you look back at past events with a different outlook

Can you read? If you can, it’s all in the OPs posts. I’m not spoon feeding you. If you have your own kids, good luck to them.

Looking at it from his point of view, you've favored your daughters over him with time, labour like rides, and emotional support and especially Daughter1. You were neutral in the breakup and listening to your daughter feeding you negatives about your own son. Since the ex was still in the house frequently, he probably felt like no you weren't supportive of him and so felt pushed out by your enmeshment with his ex as well as less support in just being present for him.

I think you need to put some boundaries in place regarding your daughter and the ex. You've been unreasonable here in having ex over all the time in what should be your family's home. You've been unreasonable listening to your daughter drip poison from ex into your ear about your son.

Give him the space he's asking for. You pushed him to be more independent and he is. Maybe try that approach with your daughters, they sound a bit spoiled especially Daughter 1 if she's telling her siblings she's the favourite. Shut that down ASAP.

Maybe the bit where she prioritises the relationship with her daughter's friend over the one with her son? Because she doesn't want to upset her daughter.