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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be fed up with all the Keir Starmer threads

283 replies

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/01/2025 17:56

It's giving me flashbacks to 2016 when there were about 20 threads a day saying nonsense like, "AIBU to be concerned about the EU's plans to conscript everyone into an EU wide army?"

Just put a sock in it, already.

OP posts:
MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 18:21

OneLemonGuide · 24/01/2025 18:04

You don’t seem to understand how company finances work. If companies retain staff at the expense of profits, we’d have increasingly uncompetitive and unproductive businesses, leading to soviet style stagnation and economic failure… And it would be the poorest that would suffer most.

Companies aren’t charities providing jobs for staff, nor should they be…

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There are a number of posters on here, who do not let a lack of knowledge get in the way of their pontification….

They know who they are, we know who they are.

nam3c4ang3 · 24/01/2025 18:05

So you start another 👌🏽

OneLemonGuide · 24/01/2025 18:04

ilovesooty · 24/01/2025 13:01

They could probably afford to cover increased rates of employer NI and higher wages to their employees as well. Instead they choose to announce job losses.

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You don’t seem to understand how company finances work. If companies retain staff at the expense of profits, we’d have increasingly uncompetitive and unproductive businesses, leading to soviet style stagnation and economic failure… And it would be the poorest that would suffer most.

Companies aren’t charities providing jobs for staff, nor should they be…

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 17:52

‘Despite the rise in the composite index, employment levels fell for the fourth month in a row according to the survey, with businesses often linking this to rising cost pressures. S&P Global said that, with the exception of the pandemic period, the rate of job losses signalled by the PMI over the past two months was the highest since the global financial crisis in 2009’

This is a stark reminder that we had the fastest growing economy in the G7 in July last year. Truly shocking, and even the usual suspects who reflexively cheerlead for this awful government should be very concerned, particularly as things seem likely to get much worse once the NI increases actually take effect…

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 17:27

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 17:26

I never said otherwise.

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Terrific, then we are aligned.

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 17:26

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 17:16

Culpability for Brexit, if you choose to call it that, has its roots on both ends of the political spectrum.

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I never said otherwise.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 24/01/2025 17:23

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 17:16

Culpability for Brexit, if you choose to call it that, has its roots on both ends of the political spectrum.

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In terms of the electorate voting when did anyone say otherwise?

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 17:17

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2025 17:07

And?

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Parasitic, no?

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 17:16

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 16:35

Your point being?

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Culpability for Brexit, if you choose to call it that, has its roots on both ends of the political spectrum.

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2025 17:07

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 16:11

3.5-4 million Labour voters, voted to leave the EU during the referendum.

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And?

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 16:35

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 16:11

3.5-4 million Labour voters, voted to leave the EU during the referendum.

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Your point being?

OP posts:
MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 16:11

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 15:42

Ah yes. Those sunlit uplands we were told about. I wouldn't know them. They go to a different school.

Isn't it weird how we've got all these threads about how shit things are right now when Brexit was supposed to make everything glorious?

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3.5-4 million Labour voters, voted to leave the EU during the referendum.

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 15:42

Macrodatarefiner · 24/01/2025 15:26

Goodness me. I would tell you, but if you honestly haven't managed to work it out and retain it by now, I doubt I'd make much difference

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Ah yes. Those sunlit uplands we were told about. I wouldn't know them. They go to a different school.

Isn't it weird how we've got all these threads about how shit things are right now when Brexit was supposed to make everything glorious?

OP posts:
AgnesX · 24/01/2025 15:30

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 13:33

How long do you consider decent, please?

And is that period elastic, predicated on data?

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The previous govt had 13 years...... be realistic rather than looking for defeat.

What exactly do you want?

Macrodatarefiner · 24/01/2025 15:26

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 12:44

I think most people have, haven't they?

Still can't for the life of me work out what the fuck it was all for though.

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Goodness me. I would tell you, but if you honestly haven't managed to work it out and retain it by now, I doubt I'd make much difference

Original poster
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/01/2025 13:46

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 13:33

How long do you consider decent, please?

And is that period elastic, predicated on data?

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Well, until the next election campaign, presumably.

OP posts:
Sherbs12 · 24/01/2025 13:43

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/01/2025 13:22

Sainsbury’s turnover is around £32 billion,. A one billion profit - less than 3% - is hardly extreme! If the NI increases is costing them £140 million that that’s a sixth of their profit gone.

If we (consumers) were happy to pay more for our food, as indeed they do in France, then they would be able to pay farmers more. But if Sainsbury’s put their prices up, you (the British public) would go and shop at Tesco…so that’s not really a coherent argument.

No one’s going run a business with a £32 billion turnover for a lower return than 3%. So the customer has to pay. Pay for the NI increase, pay for the minimum wage increase and pay to pay farmers more…

I can’t be bothered to dig out Morrisons accounts, but they will have been audited, they will comply with accounting standards and they will have paid tax within the tax rules. But perhaps their auditors, tax advisors and HMRC have missed something - maybe you could point the errors out to them?

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The 2023 zero tax by the private equity firm that own Morrisons was widely reported and raised this month by an MP. Receipt in The Times here: https://www.thetimes.com/article/asda-and-morrisons-pay-zero-business-tax-wdgp9g88c

Sainsbury’s record profit receipt here:
https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2024/04/sainsburys-strongest-year/

My husband is a small business owner who will be hit by the rise in National Insurance for - his profits will be down, but he accepts tax has to come from somewhere and recognises that investment in public services benefits everyone (although I acknowledge not small business might be able to absorb NI costs in the same way).

Asda and Morrisons paid zero corporation tax last year after buyouts

Private equity backed supermarkets Asda and Morrisons did not pay a penny of corporation tax last year, as new disclosures shed a light on how buyout firms min

https://www.thetimes.com/article/asda-and-morrisons-pay-zero-business-tax-wdgp9g88c

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 13:38

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2025 12:24

Starmer’s satisfaction ratings are stellar compared with Thatcher’s at this point in her government. 🤷‍♀️

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An asinine comparison.

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 13:33

AgnesX · 24/01/2025 13:23

I dont think they've covered themselves in glory. I do think that they should be allowed a decent length of time to sort things out.

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How long do you consider decent, please?

And is that period elastic, predicated on data?

MyNameIsX · 24/01/2025 13:32

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2025 11:57

Look at readers comments yourself

No thanks, I’ll stick to facts if it’s all right with you. Or even if it isn’t.

And yet, here you are - a reader, who makes comments.

Oh, the irony.

AgnesX · 24/01/2025 13:27

OneLemonGuide · 24/01/2025 07:45

You’re missing the point. I didn’t expect - as most people didn’t - Labour to turn the UK into a utopia in six months. We knew it was a long-term project. It’s that so much of what they have done so far is to actively make things worse… and they don’t really have a vision or plan to speak of. I deal with government policy as part of my job, and they have been less competent than the last lot so far (with the possible exception of the Truss debacle!)

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What do you do? I mean in terms of government interacting with civil servants (I'm supposing that you are one) ?

How do the opposition and new policy makers learn to interact with the CS? This isn't meant to be cheeky but in terms of what are your expectations in terms of behaviour?

AgnesX · 24/01/2025 13:23

EasternStandard · 24/01/2025 07:32

You’re in a minority who think he’s going well. You’ll just have to get used to views different to yours.

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I dont think they've covered themselves in glory. I do think that they should be allowed a decent length of time to sort things out.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 24/01/2025 13:22

Sherbs12 · 24/01/2025 12:56

@twistyizzy Interesting that you reference Morrisons - owned by a US company who paid £0 corporation tax last year - and Sainsbury’s, who have recently announced record profits over £1billion…something doesn’t add up with what they’re claiming and what their finances tell us.

I saw that they’ve also come out in support of farmers (perhaps the wealthy landowners too, who haven’t been paying inheritance tax since Thatcher) - I think they could perhaps put their money where their mouth is and pay farmers a better, fairer price for their products and work.

Edited

Sainsbury’s turnover is around £32 billion,. A one billion profit - less than 3% - is hardly extreme! If the NI increases is costing them £140 million that that’s a sixth of their profit gone.

If we (consumers) were happy to pay more for our food, as indeed they do in France, then they would be able to pay farmers more. But if Sainsbury’s put their prices up, you (the British public) would go and shop at Tesco…so that’s not really a coherent argument.

No one’s going run a business with a £32 billion turnover for a lower return than 3%. So the customer has to pay. Pay for the NI increase, pay for the minimum wage increase and pay to pay farmers more…

I can’t be bothered to dig out Morrisons accounts, but they will have been audited, they will comply with accounting standards and they will have paid tax within the tax rules. But perhaps their auditors, tax advisors and HMRC have missed something - maybe you could point the errors out to them?

ilovesooty · 24/01/2025 13:01

Sherbs12 · 24/01/2025 12:56

@twistyizzy Interesting that you reference Morrisons - owned by a US company who paid £0 corporation tax last year - and Sainsbury’s, who have recently announced record profits over £1billion…something doesn’t add up with what they’re claiming and what their finances tell us.

I saw that they’ve also come out in support of farmers (perhaps the wealthy landowners too, who haven’t been paying inheritance tax since Thatcher) - I think they could perhaps put their money where their mouth is and pay farmers a better, fairer price for their products and work.

Edited

They could probably afford to cover increased rates of employer NI and higher wages to their employees as well. Instead they choose to announce job losses.

Sherbs12 · 24/01/2025 12:56

@twistyizzy Interesting that you reference Morrisons - owned by a US company who paid £0 corporation tax last year - and Sainsbury’s, who have recently announced record profits over £1billion…something doesn’t add up with what they’re claiming and what their finances tell us.

I saw that they’ve also come out in support of farmers (perhaps the wealthy landowners too, who haven’t been paying inheritance tax since Thatcher) - I think they could perhaps put their money where their mouth is and pay farmers a better, fairer price for their products and work.