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Original poster

To wonder if Starmer can survive the vibe-shift?

584 replies

User09678 · 22/01/2025 12:25

Trump has been going hell for leather since his inauguration it seems, things are changing fast - Trump likes the UK, but he doesn't like Starmer. Starmer seems out of sync with the changing tide, and seems (to me) to get it wrong and make it worse everytime he opens his mouth. AIBU in wondering how long Starmer can hang on?

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14
AllCatAndABagOfChips · 22/01/2025 16:09

taxguru · 22/01/2025 12:37

We didn't go "more left wing". Labour's vote in 2024 wasn't more than it was under Corbyn in 2019. Labour won because the Tory vote collapsed due to the sheer number of Tories who changed their votes to Reform or the LibDems. The majority who moved to Reform clearly shows a Right wing swing, not a left wing swing. The tide towards the Right is happening right across Europe including the UK.

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I agree. Unfortunately.

RedToothBrush · 22/01/2025 16:09

bluelavender · 22/01/2025 15:49

I think there's a tough time ahead. Many voted for Starmer because they were fed up with the Conservative government rather than for a big shift to the left.

It will be difficult for labour if standards of living improve in the US under Trump and his 'look to now not the future ' policies (eg drilling for oil and gas).

V likely though that Trump will overreach. A ban in EDI work in government will hurt more vulnerable groups (people with disabilities; carers etc) and could exclude more from the workforce. Broad social democratic policies could then become more popular and labour could end up riding the next wave

See I remain unconvinced by the effectiveness of EDI training. I'd argue that it's possibly not been as helpful as people think because it's help to foster and build up resentment and it's a key cause of where we are now - it's creating a backlash. I think there needs to be a rethink all round tbh. A number of years ago a lad I knew was trying to join the police, but they had filled all available positions for straight white males. He got the job though. Why? Cos he was willing to game the system and filled in his forms stating he was gay. This was way before there was a backlash against wokeism. He just realised that if he wanted the job, that was the only way he was getting it.

This means on all his responses he's giving 'a gay mans view' when he's 100% straight! So there isn't any more gay representation in the force. But straight white men are able to present their opinion and because listened to more because their paperwork has certain boxes ticked.

It was eye opening to me. It made me realise you can't dismiss the element of abuse of identity. If people want something enough they will find a way.

This guy is was a really nice guy too. I'd generally say he was otherwise an honest guy and the type of person the police badly need. But he was willing to trample over gay men to get it.

MNHQ
PipMumsnet · 22/01/2025 16:08

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Allswellthatendswelll · 22/01/2025 16:07

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TheNuthatch · 22/01/2025 16:07

Nigellasrockyroad · 22/01/2025 16:05

what a surprise, my comment has been deleted. Mumsnet, when are you going to step up and do something about the bots? Reporting them gets us nowhere.

When are you going to accept that many people do not support Labour and are free to express it? These constant accusations that they must be a bot are ridiculous.

Nigellasrockyroad · 22/01/2025 16:05

what a surprise, my comment has been deleted. Mumsnet, when are you going to step up and do something about the bots? Reporting them gets us nowhere.

EasternStandard · 22/01/2025 15:59

JRSKSSBH · 22/01/2025 15:03

Gosh Max, I am glad you are here to give us the inside track on current affairs. Who needs newspapers and journals when Max is here to tell us the truth. I feel much better now that someone who really knows the Trump administration has chimed in. I guess that second helping of chicken meant something after all.

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Haha at the chicken. It was an ‘extended dinner’ apparently

Lammy’s gone from scathing to glowing but his bromance will be one sided. He has to Trump doesn’t

Notaflippinclue · 22/01/2025 15:59

Well something will probably give when Labour get a proper kicking in the local elections

Alwaystired94 · 22/01/2025 15:58

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and ofc if people didn't act exactly like the bots on X, people wouldn't say it. obviously not every single one is a bot, but there is a pattern and it's increasingly obvious.

Allswellthatendswelll · 22/01/2025 15:58

RedToothBrush · 22/01/2025 15:47

It'll go one of two ways. We'll be firmly sucked in OR be that bloody fed up of hearing about all the bloody drama in the US we'll do a total rejection of it, just to spite them.

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I think the vast majority of people are just not following the day to day stuff across the Atlantic. If they do they just think it's pretty bonkers.

Nigellasrockyroad · 22/01/2025 15:51

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bluelavender · 22/01/2025 15:49

I think there's a tough time ahead. Many voted for Starmer because they were fed up with the Conservative government rather than for a big shift to the left.

It will be difficult for labour if standards of living improve in the US under Trump and his 'look to now not the future ' policies (eg drilling for oil and gas).

V likely though that Trump will overreach. A ban in EDI work in government will hurt more vulnerable groups (people with disabilities; carers etc) and could exclude more from the workforce. Broad social democratic policies could then become more popular and labour could end up riding the next wave

HRTQueen · 22/01/2025 15:48

I’m not sure Trump would prefer anyone I don’t think he would care that much beyond the UK having a right wing party in power

Interesting choice Lord Peter Mandelson as US ambassador, great political mover but he may just have ruffled too many feathers or he could be the answer to what Starmer needs to work with Trump

It’s all very well saying Trump is stupid fool but he matters very much to the world and the state of international politics at present (maybe not as much as it once did) and particularly to us post Brexit as all US presidents do

RedToothBrush · 22/01/2025 15:47

Allswellthatendswelll · 22/01/2025 15:42

Were there similar threads like this pre May 2024? I'm genuinely interested as I can't remember if they were or won't. I remember political threads but the way these OPs are worded always seems weird and impersonal to me.

But OK I'll bite. No. I think the UK is basically a centrist country. I think most politicians are by default very unpopular at the moment due to wider economic factors. I think Trump will go the same way when he can't perform economic miracles. I think most British people are reasonable centerists who are not fans of Trump or Musk or right wing conspiracies in general. I also think five years is a bloody long time in politics and the world and by the time we have another election Trump will be out of office anyway.

It'll go one of two ways. We'll be firmly sucked in OR be that bloody fed up of hearing about all the bloody drama in the US we'll do a total rejection of it, just to spite them.

RedToothBrush · 22/01/2025 15:45

HRTQueen · 22/01/2025 15:25

The issue Starmer has is that he does not connect with the public. Blair did, Corbyn had a large cult like following. So whatever he says, and this isn’t helping with the right wing media but that is always the case for Labour, is that he doesn’t connect with people. Also hasn’t helped that he has taken the stance of I have to make hard decisions and there are no negotiations

Starmer is intelligent, a strong leader as seen by his purge of the left of the party. certainly capable of dealing with international negotiations at a high level but he just isn’t good at the game of politics. It isn’t just about charisms it’s about being able to play with words. Sometimes he is just to honest and when he isn’t being so upfront he ain’t in anyway apologising for back tracking (Blair was very good at this)

many of his supporters (myself included though disappointed with some decisions he has made) will say personality doesn’t matter but in politics especially in the world of so much reporting it does

Unless there is sudden turn in the economy and his popularity I think there is likely to be a leadership challenge. Having a huge majority is great to get things through parliament but a headache to manage. I think it’s likely to be Angela Rayner (she had been pushed to the sidelines) or Wes Streeting who is certainly working on his leadership qualities

Streeting will fare better with the electorate for numerous reasons than Rayner.

Streeting has been decisive on some key issues which are playing out - his foresight will serve him well. He's reading the room when others have not. Rayner has a massive PR problem I don't know how she solves. I would struggle to vote for her.

That said I don't think Starmer will go anywhere fast. Labour are aware of how badly multiple Tory leadership battles went down badly with the public.

I'm no fan of Starmer and have been vocally so. He's walked into a number of avoidable traps. He was handed a poisoned chalice though from where it would be very difficult for any leader to dig themselves out of. And he has all the charisma of a mosquito.

What matters most with Starmer is the quality of the advice he's getting. If he listens to Streeting he might do ok...

...so yeah my head is at what would Streeting do and just how much rivalry there is between him and Starmer. Will they put themselves first or put aside that rivalry?

Allswellthatendswelll · 22/01/2025 15:42

Were there similar threads like this pre May 2024? I'm genuinely interested as I can't remember if they were or won't. I remember political threads but the way these OPs are worded always seems weird and impersonal to me.

But OK I'll bite. No. I think the UK is basically a centrist country. I think most politicians are by default very unpopular at the moment due to wider economic factors. I think Trump will go the same way when he can't perform economic miracles. I think most British people are reasonable centerists who are not fans of Trump or Musk or right wing conspiracies in general. I also think five years is a bloody long time in politics and the world and by the time we have another election Trump will be out of office anyway.

HawkTUAHspitonthatthing · 22/01/2025 15:42

PandoraSox · 22/01/2025 15:31

And your reasoning for this?

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Its called an opinion love

OP posts:
HawkTUAHspitonthatthing · 22/01/2025 15:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
User09678 · 22/01/2025 15:32

AlecTrevelyan006 · 22/01/2025 14:15

I think most people in most west democracies have realised that left and right are just different colours of shit and on a day-to-day basis neither make much difference to how most people live. For years, all politician of all hues have been promising the earth and none of them have delivered. No one has any new vision, new hope, or new ideas. We're all just going to trundle on forever until capitalism completely collapses, or we all drown under rising sea levels, or we get wiped out by an asteroid like the dinosaurs - all possibly all three.

What makes you think capitalism is going to collapse? Its easier to imagine the end of the world

OP posts:
Allthebrokenplaces · 22/01/2025 15:32

IMustDoMoreExercise · 22/01/2025 15:28

Of course he has. Perhaps not directly, but indirectly he could make life very difficult for Starmer and therefore the UK.

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Who in the Labour party do you think Trump would prefer?

PandoraSox · 22/01/2025 15:31

HawkTUAHspitonthatthing · 22/01/2025 15:30

starmer is a vile prick

And your reasoning for this?

AnonymousBleep · 22/01/2025 15:31

HawkTUAHspitonthatthing · 22/01/2025 15:30

starmer is a vile prick

OK Nigel.

HawkTUAHspitonthatthing · 22/01/2025 15:30

starmer is a vile prick

AnonymousBleep · 22/01/2025 15:29

HRTQueen · 22/01/2025 15:25

The issue Starmer has is that he does not connect with the public. Blair did, Corbyn had a large cult like following. So whatever he says, and this isn’t helping with the right wing media but that is always the case for Labour, is that he doesn’t connect with people. Also hasn’t helped that he has taken the stance of I have to make hard decisions and there are no negotiations

Starmer is intelligent, a strong leader as seen by his purge of the left of the party. certainly capable of dealing with international negotiations at a high level but he just isn’t good at the game of politics. It isn’t just about charisms it’s about being able to play with words. Sometimes he is just to honest and when he isn’t being so upfront he ain’t in anyway apologising for back tracking (Blair was very good at this)

many of his supporters (myself included though disappointed with some decisions he has made) will say personality doesn’t matter but in politics especially in the world of so much reporting it does

Unless there is sudden turn in the economy and his popularity I think there is likely to be a leadership challenge. Having a huge majority is great to get things through parliament but a headache to manage. I think it’s likely to be Angela Rayner (she had been pushed to the sidelines) or Wes Streeting who is certainly working on his leadership qualities

I agree - he lacks political conviction in a way that Blair and Corbyn did not - someone who clearly relies more on polls and advisors than his own instincts. It could be argued that pragmatism is a good quality but it does make him a slightly unconvincing leader. I'd take him over the bluster and vanity and downright idiocy of Trump - or Farage - any day though. I don't think there will be a leadership challenge as he's clearly a lot tougher than he seems. Watching America, I'm thanking my lucky stars we're not stuck with the sort of leader who'd burn the whole world if he could be king of the ashes.