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AIBU?

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Original poster

TW: death/injury When is it kinder to let someone die?

132 replies

En0ufh1sEn0ugh39 · 21/01/2025 21:33

I recently started watching Facebook videos and haven’t yet adjusted my preferences for content I want to see. I’ve been bombarded by videos of “feel good” stories. It’s largely about people in the US who have had life changing injuries. So for example, a shot gun wound where they lost most of their face, or someone who has had all of his body below the torso removed because of an accident. In all these cases the person nearly died but was saved by modern medicine.

I want to be clear I am disabled myself (and have a not great quality of life) and I think if people want to have surgeries/treatment they should have them on the NHS and be fully supported by the welfare state if needed. But, is it always ethical to
intervene? And is consent always needed?

I’d be really interested to hear from any medical professionals or people with firsthand experience what they think. Is it possible to put in place something on medical records to say in advance when we wouldn’t want treatment.

My experience is that the NHS/medicine is great at physically saving people but there is very little support for living with the impact of serious illnesses/injury. I assume it’s the same in the US.

YABU-we should always use medicine to save a life

YANBU- it’s more complicated and sometimes it’s kinder to let someone pass

OP posts:
XWKD · 21/01/2025 22:49

I know someone who was brought back after catastrophic injuries. She says she wished she had been allowed to die. She's now terminally ill and very happy about it.

BlueSilverCats · 21/01/2025 22:40

@En0ufh1sEn0ugh39 there are so many circumstances and situations that it’s hard to cover them all.

For example, if someone is brain dead they will stop intervention and just keep them alive with machines until family can get there.

The main issue is that doctors have no idea what an unconscious person on the table (with no family or NOK around or with directive) wants or can live with. If there is treatment that can be done, they have to attempt it. Tbh, in many cases , the kind of thing you're talking about ends in death more often than not , anyway.

Do you really want someone else (even a medical professional) to decide for you when enough is enough ? Or put that responsibility on them?

Covid was an extreme circumstance and certain decisions were made based on the "greater good" and maximising chances of survival for the max number of people, rather than the individual themselves. A bit like organ transplants. Many things can bump you down the list or even off it completely. That’s because organs are a precious resource and they do the want to "waste" it on someone with low chances of recovery/high chances of rejection.

Original poster
En0ufh1sEn0ugh39 · 21/01/2025 22:32

ARealitycheck · 21/01/2025 22:26

I don't think the OP is getting at just the financial issues. To my mind there is the moral view of is their a viable relatively contented life for them post surgery.

If I were left unable to care for myself and in constant pain. Would I choose to live and endure major surgery and ongoing painful rehabilitation. I'm not sure.

Show quote history

Yes@ARealitycheck I was more getting at the ethics of medical intervention when the persons’ quality of life is going to be badly affected if they aren’t in a position to
consent.

I was moved by the story of the young man who had a hemiorectomy (think that’s the word) where he lost his body below the torso. 5 years on his life seemed very restricted (housebound lying down mostly) and most of his friends abandoned him. I think his situation could have been improved with more state support (but this was the US).

I’ve changed my feed algorithm now

OP posts:
Original poster
En0ufh1sEn0ugh39 · 21/01/2025 22:27

BlueSilverCats · 21/01/2025 22:14

www.nhs.uk/conditions/end-of-life-care/planning-ahead/advance-decision-to-refuse-treatment/

Some people want to be alive at all costs. Some people don't. Doctors can't and shouldn't make that decisions . So unless otherwise stated , life saving measures, even extreme ones should always be taken.

Thanks for sharing the link that’s really useful.

I find it really interesting although worrying if I’m honest that the default is to treat even in extreme situations. Is this in the hypocratic oath? I suppose you could say that not treating someone but making them comfortable is “doing no harm” whereas extreme and invasive treatment is. Obviously not ideal that decisions should fall on individual drs but from e.g. covid sounds like they do have to make life/death decisions a lot?

OP posts:
ARealitycheck · 21/01/2025 22:26

Circumferences · 21/01/2025 22:20

I think if the state sends someone into warfare and they come back in a terrible state, then the country has a duty to revive and repair you and give you the best possible healthcare available.

If someone gets their head blown off because they're an idiot and got into a gang related crime, or were pissed and got in a car crash, you should pay for your own healthcare out of your own healthcare insurance if you want it.

It's not a cut and dry situation. Personal choice should come into it. Our NHS is doomed to fail and is on a path to self destruction as it is. We would all do well to get proper health insurance right now then we can choose.

I don't think the OP is getting at just the financial issues. To my mind there is the moral view of is their a viable relatively contented life for them post surgery.

If I were left unable to care for myself and in constant pain. Would I choose to live and endure major surgery and ongoing painful rehabilitation. I'm not sure.

Circumferences · 21/01/2025 22:20

I think if the state sends someone into warfare and they come back in a terrible state, then the country has a duty to revive and repair you and give you the best possible healthcare available.

If someone gets their head blown off because they're an idiot and got into a gang related crime, or were pissed and got in a car crash, you should pay for your own healthcare out of your own healthcare insurance if you want it.

It's not a cut and dry situation. Personal choice should come into it. Our NHS is doomed to fail and is on a path to self destruction as it is. We would all do well to get proper health insurance right now then we can choose.

BlueSilverCats · 21/01/2025 22:14

www.nhs.uk/conditions/end-of-life-care/planning-ahead/advance-decision-to-refuse-treatment/

Some people want to be alive at all costs. Some people don't. Doctors can't and shouldn't make that decisions . So unless otherwise stated , life saving measures, even extreme ones should always be taken.