To ask what your neurotypical view is… What is normal?!

I also wonder about this. I've been reading a lot of autism and have many of the "traits". But how many "NT" people have these too? That it's only diagnosed if it's a problem is a problem for me! 😆I personally would reserve it if it was very problematic ie I'm not sure "high functioning" should be a thing. It's called having a personality. You get on with some people, some times you don't.

But happy to be corrected/informed. I do find it fascinating that those on the spectrum share similar traits, so I suppose for those who are "high functioning" it's a way to bond with other people. But surely they wouldn't have much in common with someone who's non-verbal and more in common with NT people.

Exactly, a lot of ND people aren’t that different (or unique) from NT people, there is a lot of misinformation out there about what is is to be NT, it’s a lot more complex than many ND think

There also isn't one set profile for someone with mild or severe ASD, moderate ADHD etc. Diagnosis is based on the number of deficits you have not in which areas. You might excel in one (often the case as certain areas become strengthened to compensate) and struggle in others.

The truth is diagnosis is a name for a collection of symptoms that enables a pathway to support and treatment. It could just as easily be conceptualised differently and may well be in future as we understand the human brain more, or discover more effective treatments. There's a push towards treating individual symptoms that show up across different diagnoses for example.

Yes, in a nutshell, NT people also struggle with a lot of the things you struggle with.

I do wonder how much of this is trying to understand how others perceive things like colours or smells as someone who's colourblind or suffers anosmia. Without a diagnosis you go through life learning that your normal is not others normal to varying degrees.

I'm ND af, I've no true idea in which direction & see no point in getting a diagnosis. For example, though, I am exceptionally good in social situations & at public speaking cos I can think off the cuff. I did a fair amount of public speaking in a very specific health related field & I never prepared a damn thing, not a word written down, I just winged it every time. Could be a brag, no? Well no, cos it was a mask & I don't feel remotely like it was me. After the events I had to drink, a lot, to cope lol. But I look ppl in the eye, I stand up straight & I can control my breathing like goddamn ninja. But it drains me of everything single thing I have.

Conversely - I cannot, for the life of me, pin down my twin nieces & which name belongs to which. I see them all the time, for ten years! Everyone else in the family can do it, but not me. I'm also in heavy debt to the tax man just through fines (not unpaid tax) cos I just cannot bring myself to deal with it. The moment I look at the forms it's like the words are another language & I can't take them in. But I can read & understand complex research despite never going to uni. So my need for support goes completely unnoticed cos I look so capable & I'm really really not.

But I'm also hyper-empathetic which is awful & stops me from enjoying a lot of things that others can in terms of film & TV. I can read ppl really easily & find highly emotional situations overwhelming, like I feel ALL of it whether it's a concert, sports game or funeral. I've also a crazy sense of smell - recent A&E trip I had to go & stand outside cos the smell of stressed other ppl made me feel truly sick (I wasn't there for me).

I mean, there's a bunch of other stuff, obvious things, but the only way to know your label is to get tested. Would it help me? No clue cos the chances of me organising that are slim to none & I manage just fine :)

You’re being binary about the most complex and unknown thing, the human brain. These are ridiculous questions.

None of it matters in terms of “normal” or not. You are what you are. I think you’re asking if everyone struggles as much and/or in the same ways as you do. Whether they do or don’t can be a function of many different things, not just neurodivergence.

I don’t think you meant to OP, but your thread has been the perfect invitation for those with anti ND views to put them out there, spout shit about labels and how everyone wants one etc. I notice quite a few of the same names coming up as in previous threads. They’re often deleted. Such hateful, clueless people.

I agree with this.
Have you considered that many of your difficulties may be down to childhood trauma?

because it's nice to know you are a normal zebra and not a defective horse.

ASD affects people in different ways. I’m diagnosed ASD, I have 2 DC.

And these are the groups who think it is ok to speak on behalf of families with profoundly disabled children or tell them there is no such think as low functioning ASD because they have days when they struggle to do anything too.

It wasn't until I was medicated for my ADHD that autistic traits started to show up more - I got better at having a routine and realised how much I need a routine. There is crossover with anxiety and internal OCD symptoms though.

Also, the points you listed OP - many of these are ADHD traits too, like mood swings, rigidity, planning and initiating tasks.

lots of members who feel sure there is "something" ND, often have family members diagnosed but either aren't interested in looking into specifics or are on long waiting lists but nothing yet confirmed or they don't know, they just found themselves there. Some of them I tend to think of as ND spaces but they actually started out as parenting support (often gentle parenting kind of things) or some niche hobby or interest, it's just that with the more recent talk about neurodiversity online, you get those clusters within those spaces too, some broke off a sort of "mini-ND branch" and a couple of them just the ND type discussions have been so prominent that it's kind of overtaken the original focus of the group.

🙄

I think there is a lot of conflating of social anxiety / poor social skills / introversion with ASD.

OP what were you like as a kid? I don't have a diagnosis but I think if I were a child now I might have. I was painfully shy and would play on my own, I taught myself to read at 2, I would insist on wearing the same old jumper every day, I refused to get my haircut so it was a long ratty ponytail to my bum, disliked by teachers for being "too serious", would come home from school and just burst into tears for seemingly no reason.

I'll probably get flamed for this but as an adult I'm always amazed when people say they're ASD and then talk about their kids. I can't imagine how on earth I'd cope with having children. The noise, the smells, the mess, things getting thrown up in the air constantly, being touched all the time. It would be my own personal hell.

Everything.

If you mean ‘neurodivergent’ then Dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, epilepsy, cerebral palsy, FASD, OCD, Bipolar disorder, Brain injury, dementia, genetic conditions, learning disability, high IQ, schizophrenia, depression, sensory processing disorders, EUPD, stroke, neglect, congenital hypothyroidism, medication-related conditions, nutrition-related conditions (such as iodine deficiency, mercury poisoning), attachment disorder…

As you should realise, many of these conditions occur at a much higher prevalence than autism/adhd.

I am NT and lots of things in your post apply to me

I hate phonecalls except with immediately family and especially hate impromptu calls. I find receiving calls easier than making them.

Im not energised by social interaction.i often dread it beforehand. I usually find i enjoy elements of it for a short while when i make myself go, and am glad i made the effort, but am left drained and need to recharge with a book at home.

I'm very successful at work but try too hard with friends and tend to put people off a bit socially. I was unpopular at school but ive got better with age because I'm more relaxed/care less what folk think. Over time i've "found my tribe" and built up some good long standing friendships. I do better 1 on 1 than in a group.

Hate going to conferences and having to introduce myself to people I don't know but will happily present to scary folk at a big meeting.

I am happy, no trouble holding down jobs, great family relationships, lovely DH of 10 years and two cracking kids.

I don't just mean autistic when I say ND. I don't think I'm in any solely-autistic online groups though, I have ADHD, so most of the places I tend to look at online are either ADHD focused or ADHD/ASD and some of the non-specific ND type groups include SPLD like dyslexia or other SEN (either parents of children or adults previously diagnosed), sensory processing disorder, various diagnosed MH issues (though not sure that is ND specifically - I do feel it can be adjacent and if people get value from a group I wouldn't gatekeep it) and lots of members who feel sure there is "something" ND, often have family members diagnosed but either aren't interested in looking into specifics or are on long waiting lists but nothing yet confirmed or they don't know, they just found themselves there. Some of them I tend to think of as ND spaces but they actually started out as parenting support (often gentle parenting kind of things) or some niche hobby or interest, it's just that with the more recent talk about neurodiversity online, you get those clusters within those spaces too, some broke off a sort of "mini-ND branch" and a couple of them just the ND type discussions have been so prominent that it's kind of overtaken the original focus of the group.

Yes, if that sounds like a lot of "spaces" - I definitely spend too much time online and contribute to too many different groups - I have realised that recently and have thought to perhaps try and prune a bit of it this year. It tends to be because my interest in different topics waxes and wanes, so when I get heavily into a topic, one forum is not usually enough, but then social media is designed to be addictive so I end up being sucked back in again by all of them.

Dyslexia, dyspraxia, all the other dys- conditions that as a dyslexic I can’t spell, Tourette’s. No doubt more that I’ve forgotten, and it depends who you talk to, but the ones I’ve mentioned are pretty much universally accepted to come under the ND “umbrella”.

What else is considered to be ND?

ND isn’t just autism / ADHD, though. That’s how it tends to be used on here, but ND is wider than that.

I find it a bit jarring to use ND when people really mean ASD most of the time here.

I am not keen on the term because they are not ND spaces even though they claim they are and claim to speak for ND individuals. Which all looks lovely until you read Autistic responses to consultations on bills such as the Scottish Government LDAN bill where they turn around and say ‘it should only consider autism’.

I'm (as far as I know) NT and my brain absolutely never switches off. I find it hard to sleep because I have many different trains of thought happening at the same time. I often forget things that I shouldn't because my mind is so busy. Do ND people think we just go around with no thoughts?!

Yes I do. Lots of them are referred to as ND spaces - I find it less clunky than to say ADHD/Autistic. I see from your username that you are not keen on the term. The actual name doesn't matter - I was illustrating the point of the value I found in having a "label".

@Tiggi7 YES! I get my voice when I'm reading internally but otherwise it's just abstract thoughts with no narration. So hard to explain but I know exactly what you mean.