Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have objected to ‘prayers’ at work

587 replies

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 13:56

Will try to keep this brief… Work in a team of 12, 6 in U.K. and 6 in USA ( mid-west) and once a week we have a team meeting that we take turns in running.

Tomorrow is the turn of A. A is a Republican, church goer, voted Trump because she wanted, quote ‘More money in my pocket book and illegals dealt with’.
So far so MAGA. This came up pre-election as she’s the only Trump fan on the team and was open about it.

On the agenda for the meeting is ‘Prayer’ as point one. I pinged manager a note saying what?? A thinks it would be nice to start off with a prayer. As a team. I have asked for it to be OFF the agenda. US manager thinks it’s ‘harmless’ but has said will clarify.

AIBU to think it’s totally inappropriate??? I’m an atheist for a start, most of my U.K. team are the same or at least agnostic.

Seems weird that she’s never tried this before, but suddenly Trump ‘god saved me to MAGA’ is inaugurated and a team prayer is in the agenda.
We are a large global company, BTW, not some local mom & pop outfit that sells bibles…

YANBU - work is secular. She keeps her views and prayers to herself own time.

YABU - lighten up, what harm can it do.

OP posts:
MrsBlob · 21/01/2025 20:49

Pretty inappropriate, and I'm a Christian myself.

I work as a midwife in a UK hospital - the only time we do anything like this at work is in baby loss awareness week. The hospital chaplain comes round and does a small service at the delivery suite desk with that staff there, for the SB babies. It's completely optional/voluntary, and quite a few staff find it helpful.

But this seems to be as part of a work meeting and not so optional, not right.

shuggles · 21/01/2025 20:49

@Azandme Freedom of religion DOES include freedom from religion.

To a point. It means you are free not to go to church, but it doesn't mean you're allowed to get your panties into a twist over (for example) a muslim colleague praying in your office.

Schleep · 21/01/2025 20:49

Religion has no place in work, politics or education.

Just like having a penis, its fine to have one - its not fine to get it out in public and wave it around.

Preciousmoments18 · 21/01/2025 20:47

LadyLapsang · 21/01/2025 19:56

Sittings in both the House of Commons and the House of Lords begin with prayers.

May I ask if it's compulsory to be there during the opening prayers in Parliament & if so what happens if non-believers refuse? Also do opening prayers happen every day or only on certain occasions? I never knew this happened so I find it interesting.

shuggles · 21/01/2025 20:47

@Hotflushesandchilblains are you always so rude?

Who was rude?

The phrase is usually extrapolated to thinking about the limits of religious influence, with the view that religion should not impinge on daily life or how you are treated. Since this is a workplace, this is an impingement. The right not to have other beliefs imposed on us is vital, but being eroded.

There was no impingement, and no beliefs were imposed on anyone. A woman asked to say a prayer during a meeting, which is not imposing anything on anyone, not any moreso than a charity leaflet is imposing on your right to not donate anything to charity.

Second, separation of church and state is not about religion not impinging on daily life. It's about ensuring that one religion is not treated favourably by the state above other religions, and that people of all faiths and none are viewed equally by the government and law. It has absolutely nothing to do with people saying prayers in the workplace at a private company.

Evenstar · 21/01/2025 20:47

As a Christian I say YANBU, completely inappropriate.

SinnerBoy · 21/01/2025 20:36

You could always say that you'd found a sung prayer and YouTube the Sex Pistols and Ronnie Biggs doing The Punk Prayer.

Wherehavetheyallgone · 21/01/2025 20:34

We used to have team meetings where the manager played a piece of music as people arrived, or read a poem as as the first agenda item.

Wasn't my favourite way to liven up a meeting (imo a biscuit is plenty!). But fairly inoffensive. Could you suggest this as an alternative?

MifsBr0wn · 21/01/2025 20:34

derxa · 21/01/2025 20:29

It really isn’t.

Show quote history

No,it's not.

MyDarlingClementine · 21/01/2025 20:30

Absolutely not unreasonable

derxa · 21/01/2025 20:29

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 20:04

I do like her! In small. Long distance, meet in person 2/3 x a year kind of way. Though Pastafarian is bloody genius!

Show quote history

It really isn’t.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2025 20:24

Gonners · 21/01/2025 20:19

If that were the case, it would surely be the end of churches? 😉

Show quote history

I think the passage does exist though :)

Azandme · 21/01/2025 20:24

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:16

That's ridiculous. It was a Christmas party and carols are part of our culture, our heritage and our Christmas tradition whether we are religious or not. And a party isn't work, so it's completely different. Anyone who is likely to be offended by the singing of carols probably isn't coming to a Christmas party anyway.

Show quote history

Except a designsted work party is considered an extension of work, hence why you can get in trouble with your employer for any shenanigans.

Lots of people fall foul of this one.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/01/2025 20:23

Jerabilis · 21/01/2025 14:16

I'm a devout Christian. If someone tried this at my work it would be a toss up between:

  • Me volunteering to lead the prayer and praying for us to have the wisdom to keep divisive American politics out of the workplace/ praying that American Christians turn back to god and away from worshipping their country
  • Pointedly asking if there will be a rotation of the prayer led by Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist colleagues etc (we're a very diverse workplace!)

My kind of Christian. This atheist approves!

Flowers
Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2025 20:23

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:16

That's ridiculous. It was a Christmas party and carols are part of our culture, our heritage and our Christmas tradition whether we are religious or not. And a party isn't work, so it's completely different. Anyone who is likely to be offended by the singing of carols probably isn't coming to a Christmas party anyway.

Show quote history

Well I think technically it was Christmas/end of year party.

RedHelenB · 21/01/2025 20:19

I'd be so tempted to take the piss, with a load of Amen Sister and Hallelujahs.

MissionBiscuits · 21/01/2025 20:19

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 19:55

for starters Democrats aren't known for trying to force their religious beliefs on others

I beg to differ. We have American Democrats to thank for the modern religions of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, Critical Race Theory and Trans Ideology. I don't want to forced to worship at the alter of any of those thank you very much, or risk being ostracised by my colleagues or lose my job if I dare to speak out and say so.

Show quote history

Thanks for showing up to illustrate my point. Those are political ideals based on human decency, not religious beliefs and they weren't 'invented' by Americans.

Gonners · 21/01/2025 20:19

CrowleyKitten · 21/01/2025 20:14

and, not being a christian, so no expert, isn't there a passage about how prayer should be done privately, and not flaunted? it should be about your own beliefs, not about trying to show others what you believe.

If that were the case, it would surely be the end of churches? 😉

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:16

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2025 20:10

Not appropriate and I'm a (doubting) Christian.

However, singing carols was banned from my work Christmas party and I don't really agree with that.

That's ridiculous. It was a Christmas party and carols are part of our culture, our heritage and our Christmas tradition whether we are religious or not. And a party isn't work, so it's completely different. Anyone who is likely to be offended by the singing of carols probably isn't coming to a Christmas party anyway.

CrowleyKitten · 21/01/2025 20:14

and, not being a christian, so no expert, isn't there a passage about how prayer should be done privately, and not flaunted? it should be about your own beliefs, not about trying to show others what you believe.

Azandme · 21/01/2025 20:13

shuggles · 21/01/2025 18:37

@Iamthewintersale I don't get what the issue is. Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion. I'm indifferent to other people practicing their religion. So if she wants to have a prayer on the call, go for it.

I worked in a workplace that had a number of muslim colleagues. On occasion, I would see them roll out their prayer mats in the office and start praying. Whenever that happened, I would stay silent as a courtesy and carry on working. I think anyone who would get annoyed or offended by that must be a particularly bored person with a lot of free time on their hands.

By the way, the political leanings of your colleague are irrelevant. Religion is a broad church and different religious people will have different political perspectives.

Freedom of religion DOES include freedom from religion.

Everyone has the right to have their beliefs respected, and atheism is as much a belief as any other.

(The amount of people who don't understand this is surprisingly high - as demonstrated by your post).

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:13

EarthSight · 21/01/2025 17:29

In U.K, I think you could legally decline on belief or non belief grounds.

It comes across like they're asserting some power or dominance. Same reason why I don't think like pronoun introduction nonsense. It's mostly to designed to reinforce their idea that they are righteous, and out anyone who is a dissenter.

Totally agree with all that.

Whenwillglorioussummercome · 21/01/2025 20:11

mitogoshigg · 21/01/2025 20:04

Just checked, it's perfectly legal to put prayers on a U.K. work agenda but you can be forced to attend that part of the meeting

But if doing so caused another staff member to feel excluded because they were not participating you’re heading towards an indirect discrimination suit. It’s a stupid thing to do unless the entire team wants it to happen and you’re certain about that.

Whenwillglorioussummercome · 21/01/2025 20:10

SilenceInside · 21/01/2025 20:03

https://humanists.uk/action/parliamentary-prayers/

That gives an advantage to any MP in the House of Commons who attends the prayers, as they are able to put down a ‘prayer card’ on their seat, which reserves it for the whole day. This means that non-Christian MPs, who don’t want to attend prayers for a religion they do not believe in, are less likely to get a seat or be selected by the Speaker to take part in the day’s business.

Show quote history

Selection by the Speaker doesn’t go on where you sit. They’ve got that wrong. The rest is totally true.

I feel like many long threads we are now in groundhog territory though.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2025 20:10

Not appropriate and I'm a (doubting) Christian.

However, singing carols was banned from my work Christmas party and I don't really agree with that.