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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have objected to ‘prayers’ at work

587 replies

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 13:56

Will try to keep this brief… Work in a team of 12, 6 in U.K. and 6 in USA ( mid-west) and once a week we have a team meeting that we take turns in running.

Tomorrow is the turn of A. A is a Republican, church goer, voted Trump because she wanted, quote ‘More money in my pocket book and illegals dealt with’.
So far so MAGA. This came up pre-election as she’s the only Trump fan on the team and was open about it.

On the agenda for the meeting is ‘Prayer’ as point one. I pinged manager a note saying what?? A thinks it would be nice to start off with a prayer. As a team. I have asked for it to be OFF the agenda. US manager thinks it’s ‘harmless’ but has said will clarify.

AIBU to think it’s totally inappropriate??? I’m an atheist for a start, most of my U.K. team are the same or at least agnostic.

Seems weird that she’s never tried this before, but suddenly Trump ‘god saved me to MAGA’ is inaugurated and a team prayer is in the agenda.
We are a large global company, BTW, not some local mom & pop outfit that sells bibles…

YANBU - work is secular. She keeps her views and prayers to herself own time.

YABU - lighten up, what harm can it do.

OP posts:
TooManyChristmasCards · 21/01/2025 14:58

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 14:47

‘it's not difficult to be respectful of other people's beliefs. I don't know how long people think a prayer will take, but I've never known a prayer in a meeting to take more than 30 seconds.’

I, an atheist, have been a 4 church/temple services in the last 6 months for other people funeral eg where I sat, listened, knelt, or whatever was appropriate in respect for others.

But this is a PROFESSIONAL setting. It’s not sitting shiva. That’s the difference.

I would cut some slack if it was a prayer for a family or following some horrendous tragedy somewhere. I still wouldn't be massively happy about it, but people can mean well and be awkward in their delivery. As a one off, I'd let go.

Link to an ELECTION? Fuck that.

Frankly, it wouldn't matter if it was the side I support or not. Work is never the time nor the place.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/01/2025 14:57

NoBinturongsHereMate · 21/01/2025 14:47

Are these sports chats on the agenda?

Of course not. They happen every meeting though. Why make a thing of it?

All of the posters egging the OP on to address this with HR (who work for the company), it's not them who will be taking the fall, is it? Still, so much fun.

Fromage · 21/01/2025 14:57

Soonenough · 21/01/2025 14:40

Can you and maybe others claim to be Jedi with equal time ?

And say "I have a bad feeling about this."

Phthia · 21/01/2025 14:57

EssexCat · 21/01/2025 14:21

Because frankly it’s a waste of my time. And I’ve enough work to be doing.

Not that I’m the OP but that would be my opinion. It’s highly inappropriate.

Edited

Exactly. And it's a waste of the time of every person attending that meeting. If you spend just 5 minutes on prayer and there are 24 people there, that's two hours of expensive time down the tubes - to say nothing of the time wasted whilst the participants are busy resenting having to do it.

CautiousLurker01 · 21/01/2025 14:57

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Onlyonekenobe · 21/01/2025 14:57

And to all the people going on about how religion is part of American culture: WRONG. There are over 350m people in this country. Not only is generalizing stupid, in this case it's also factually incorrect for any of the major business hubs (NY, LA, SF, Chicago, big cities in Texas etc) where religion never even figures. It's also factually incorrect in that evangelical-lite Christians (of whom this woman would be a variety if she thinks this is in any way appropriate) are a small minority and many, many, many other faiths are available. She's just got carried away by yesterday's display, and she - like every Trump follower today - thinks she's on top of and owns the world. She needs telling.

Also, this country is literally founded on the separation of church and state, unlike the UK which, as they keep banging on about, they fought a bloody war to overthrow!

Unbelievable. This is the kind of hypocrisy that Trump supporters revel in. It's bullshit and we need people in Europe and elsewhere to continue to remind them how fucking stupid and wrong they are. Whatever you do, don't allow it into your own lives.

Azandme · 21/01/2025 14:56

Abracadabra12345 · 21/01/2025 14:42

Or it could be completely apolitical and to just pray for wisdom and to bless everyone there? One minute tops

Religion is a form of identity politics, so it can't be apolitical...

Sportacus17 · 21/01/2025 14:55

Tell them you’d like to add an agenda item - a 5 minute reading from the Quran to close off each meeting. See what they say 👌

BlokeHereInPeace · 21/01/2025 14:55

It's interesting; the quarterback in the winning team of a massive football match in the US last night started his post-match interview by thanking his lord and savior Jesus Christ. Personal view, if it' s a 30 second 'may god help us make the right decisions and yadda yadda yadda' then let them get on with it, turn your camera and mic off. If they start wanting responses, then point out that because of UK law they'll need to start their meeting at xx:55 and the rest of you will join at the start time.

Mirabai · 21/01/2025 14:55

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 14:51

Actually - it’s a massive company. That office area alone is 1k+ people, it’s just my team there who are small.

In that case it may be resolvable.

Thisisnotmyid · 21/01/2025 14:54

I’m a practising catholic and this is not on. Personal faith does not belong in the workplace and it definitely doesn’t belong on a teams meeting! Tell her jump and see if the Don catches her

Azandme · 21/01/2025 14:54

People asking what harm it does, or saying just let her, are drastically missing the point.

In your opinions this may be a small thing - but it's a breach of the Equality Act 2010. It's also a breach of Fundamental British Values. So this time it's "just a prayer" - but erosion starts as "just a drop".

It doesn't matter that it's "just a prayer" - it's divisive, and inappropriate.

It also means the company could be sued - and that's not a small thing.

What if all faiths demanded to be included on the basis that it's discrimination to restrict it to Christians? If the company say no - that's discrimination, they get sued. If they say yes - no work is getting done because all meetings are now prayer meetings.

It's not "just a prayer" it's the impact of allowing one religion into a diverse secular workplace.

godmum56 · 21/01/2025 14:54

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 14:37

A Hail Mary would tip her over the edge. She’s in one of those evangelical type, the pope is a false prophet type churches.
Fuck it, if this goes ahead I’m doing a Hail Mary in Latin. I can just about remember it from school…

give it a bit of a David Essex vibe.....I'd join in!!
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiæ,
vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevæ
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
in hac lacrimarum valle.

Eia, ergo, advocata nostra, illos tuos
misericordes oculos ad nos converte;
Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui,
nobis post hoc exsilium ostende.
O clemens, O pia, O dulcis Virgo Maria.

BlueRobins · 21/01/2025 14:53

While your U.S. manager may view the prayer as harmless, they might not fully appreciate the discomfort it could cause.

Phthia · 21/01/2025 14:52

OliveThe0therReindeer · 21/01/2025 14:16

I think you need to separate out three things

  • your dislike of her politics
  • you dislike of her religion
  • Having religious observance during a work meeting

As you work in the Uk you will be aware that people here have freedoms of both religion and political belief. This applies to everyone, even if you don’t agree with them. It’s a fundamental part of human rights here in the Uk and criticising someone for expressing their views is probably a breach of your company policy.

That’s different from the third point, which depends on your company custom and practice, if it’s not mentioned in policy.

If you don’t wish to particulate you can ask your line manager for a respectful way to opt out.

I understand it can be challenging to work with people of different cultures, ethnicities and religions from your own , but it’s important to respect differences and appreciate that a workplace benefits from diversity and acceptance.

Your HR dept might be able to provide some training for you and your team on diversity and inclusion.

With every respect, this is nonsense. People have a right to express their religion, but they don't have that right during working hours, and they don't have the right to expect other people to join them in doing so when attending work meetings.

Alifemoreordinary123 · 21/01/2025 14:52

Hard no to that OP. Anything outside of your home and church is secular in my mind! Unless you choose for it not to be (religious schools etc). Fine to chat to colleagues about your faith and mention it in passing, absolutely not ok to invite colleagues to participate in worshiping your god during a team meeting. The simple act is divisive in that it disrespects those who don’t believe and marginalises them in that moment.

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 14:51

Mirabai · 21/01/2025 14:49

This a small team in the Midwest it’s not Goldmans NY.

OP can try but I wouldn’t be surprised if the other 5 agree they should all pray.

Actually - it’s a massive company. That office area alone is 1k+ people, it’s just my team there who are small.

OP posts:
Phthia · 21/01/2025 14:50

OchonAgusOchonOh · 21/01/2025 14:05

I wonder if you inform your manager you are an atheist, going ahead with a group prayer in the meeting might count as a contravention of your rights under the protected characteristic of religion.

Alternatively, could it be an autocorrect for something else? My phone autocorrects to some really bizarre stuff and if A writes the word prayer frequently, it could potentially be that.

It could certainly conflict with the rights of members of other religions.

Mirabai · 21/01/2025 14:49

SnapdragonToadflax · 21/01/2025 14:44

Nope, absolutely not! I work for a global company with US HQ and there's no way this would fly. Although it would never happen to start with, my US colleagues are all very much left-leaning and depressed at the moment. Some may be religious given it's far more common in the US than UK, but there's no way they'd be so overt about it.

Honestly, she must be mad.

This a small team in the Midwest it’s not Goldmans NY.

OP can try but I wouldn’t be surprised if the other 5 agree they should all pray.

Iamnotalemming · 21/01/2025 14:48

Ugh. No religion or politics in the workplace.

Phthia · 21/01/2025 14:48

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 21/01/2025 14:01

Prayer to start a work meeting? No!
Perhaps this is normal though for the woman proposing it so a bit of cultural sensitivity might be needed. If she wants a prayer time she could start the meeting five minutes early and let everyone know so they can join her if they want to.

I disagree. If she wants to pray, she does it in her own time and not using company facilities. There should be no suggestion of prayer being mixed up in the meeting at all, otherwise she'll be wanting to test each decision according to whether it accords with her religious principles. Suppose, for the sake of argument, your company produced or marketed medical drugs, would she expect it to get out of every type of product that might result in a pregnancy terminating?

snowflakelake · 21/01/2025 14:48

I live and work in the Midwest and prayer isn't part of any work event I've ever been to.
I would absolutely raise that this is very inappropriate and could cause issues under UK law.

ERthree · 21/01/2025 14:48

As long as all religions are treated the same, no prayers of any kind for anyone and that means anyone.

Ohnobackagain · 21/01/2025 14:48

@Iamthewintersale ask how long it will take and say you will join the call that amount of time later.

CautiousLurker01 · 21/01/2025 14:48

According to UK law, it is illegal to require employees to take part in acts of prayer/religious service. The Equality Act 2010 protects both your right to take part in a religion and NOT to observe one without discrimination or disadvantage in UK employment settings.

I’d email her and state that, consequent to the above, including prayer in a meeting as she has done is illegal here and that it needs to be removed from the agenda. It is not harmless.