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Original poster

AIBU to wonder why English teachers don't fight Maths teachers?

83 replies

GRex · 20/01/2025 22:27

Every week we get the primary maths homework with questions like:
"What number is 41 less than 54?"

It's like nails down my psychological blackboard. How do the teachers responsible for the English programme cope? Why does nobody take the battle forward for fewer? What is so scary about the maths teachers that none of the rest stand and fight this out for the greater good?

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 21/01/2025 11:32

The thing about maths is that, ultimately, you can pretty much get rid of words and use a precise language of symbols. However, you need to scaffold pupils into getting there. It is also important to learn to parameterise problems in Science: map words to soluble equations.

Young pupils will need to learn the ‘less than’ and ‘more than’ symbols, so the language used in that problem would map to those symbols (although it actually means minus in that context).

I think worrying about whether better vocabulary can be used in an English sense kind of misses the point.

Would physics teachers like doctors to ask you your mass rather than your weight? Well, yes they would, but they accept that pupils have to learn context as well! It is also what some linguists call ‘register’, a poem shouldn’t read like a washing machine instruction manual and vice versa.

24Seconds2Go · 21/01/2025 11:20

Why don't they just write 54 - 41 = ? then. Is it because they are more interested in finding out if you can work out what they are asking for rather than 'the answer'?

CasperGutman · 21/01/2025 11:13

Gallowayan · 21/01/2025 09:51

I'm a maths dunce so I can't comment on the technical correctness of the wording of the question, as you have done. But it does seem unecessarily obscure and is badly written.

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I agree the wording is a bit clunky and unnatural. But that's part of the point: to encourage children to recognise that the same mathematical ideas can be expressed in different (and sometimes obscure or inelegant) ways. If they wanted to convey the required mathematical operation in an optimally clear and concise manner they'd just write "54 - 41".

Gallowayan · 21/01/2025 09:51

CasperGutman · 20/01/2025 22:41

AIUI it's debatable whether it has ever really been incorrect to use "less" for countable items. But even accepting this is a valid rule I'm not convinced it applies in this instance.

The question is one of pure maths - there's nothing to indicate that these figures represent numbers of countable items as opposed to, say, heights in centimetres. In general, the number line is continuous.

Would you also have them say "What number is 3.2 fewer than 2.4?" Or would you read out "9 < 10" as "nine is fewer than ten"? Why? Would you also say "0.9 < 1.0" as "zero point nine is fewer than one point zero"?

Edited

I'm a maths dunce so I can't comment on the technical correctness of the wording of the question, as you have done. But it does seem unecessarily obscure and is badly written.

BigSilly · 21/01/2025 09:41

I hope you feel suitably embarrassed by your ignorance now!

borntobequiet · 21/01/2025 09:36

KvotheTheBloodless · 21/01/2025 09:13

Ooh, who would win though? I mean, you'd think the PE teachers but I reckon chemistry teachers would win if subject-specific props were allowed - a cloud of sulphur dioxide and job done.

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The PE teachers would referee and probably eat the refreshments.

user2848502016 · 21/01/2025 09:29

Because "less than" and "greater than" are actual mathematical terms, but "fewer than" isn't?
(But as a scientist I'm probably biased and would be cheering on the maths teachers 😂)

ErrolTheDragon · 21/01/2025 09:27

Ooh, who would win though? I mean, you'd think the PE teachers but I reckon chemistry teachers would win if subject-specific props were allowed - a cloud of sulphur dioxide and job done.

The physics teacher might be better at long-range projectiles though.

KvotheTheBloodless · 21/01/2025 09:13

borntobequiet · 21/01/2025 08:13

There’s nothing wrong with that question. Numbers are either greater than, equal to or less than others.
A sponsored Teacher Fight Day might be fun, though. Better than run of the mill CPD.

Ooh, who would win though? I mean, you'd think the PE teachers but I reckon chemistry teachers would win if subject-specific props were allowed - a cloud of sulphur dioxide and job done.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/01/2025 09:04

SinnerBoy · 21/01/2025 08:59

myplace · Today 07:35

I hope he doesn't teach English!
Isn’t that the point? The English teachers get cross about the superlative, the maths teachers about the unequal ‘halves’

My point was that it should have been bigger, not biggest...

Yes, that's the joke. The maths teacher would point out that if they're different sizes they aren't halves, but the English teacher would say 'bigger, not biggest'.

And meanwhile the PE teacher would scoff the cake.

SinnerBoy · 21/01/2025 08:59

myplace · Today 07:35

I hope he doesn't teach English!
Isn’t that the point? The English teachers get cross about the superlative, the maths teachers about the unequal ‘halves’

My point was that it should have been bigger, not biggest...

borntobequiet · 21/01/2025 08:56

timothynicebutdim · 21/01/2025 08:53

If it's primary, surely it's the same teacher?

I expect he or she is beating him or herself up about it. Stressful.

timothynicebutdim · 21/01/2025 08:53

If it's primary, surely it's the same teacher?

Maddy70 · 21/01/2025 08:50

"less than" is a mathematical term

MrsMurphyIWish · 21/01/2025 08:40

NancyJoan · 21/01/2025 08:03

The English teachers are too busy doing their marking.

As I’m onto hour 8 of mock marking (a full Lang Paper and a full Lit paper) whilst my Maths’ colleagues can bang out their papers in a PPA, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!

Behindthethymes · 21/01/2025 08:24

I thought the English teachers were winning this war having colonised maths by inserting words where they don’t belong. You don’t see numbers popping up in the English classroom.

ThisUsernameIsNowTaken · 21/01/2025 08:23

If it's primary aren't they teaching both anyway? Also I would say " How much is 54 minus 41".

OccultGnuNew · 21/01/2025 08:22

This is more accurate, but fewer funny 😁.

I see what you did there OP, bravo!

Diomi · 21/01/2025 08:17

GRex · 20/01/2025 22:27

Every week we get the primary maths homework with questions like:
"What number is 41 less than 54?"

It's like nails down my psychological blackboard. How do the teachers responsible for the English programme cope? Why does nobody take the battle forward for fewer? What is so scary about the maths teachers that none of the rest stand and fight this out for the greater good?

Because many English teachers are terrible at maths and are afraid that someone will find out that they are flummoxed by percentages if a test isn’t out of 100. 😂

BarbaraHoward · 21/01/2025 08:13

MoodEnhancer · 21/01/2025 08:04

Hmmm. The problem here is that you are incorrect, OP. In that example, it is right to use less, not fewer.

Yeah the English and maths teachers would be united on this one.

borntobequiet · 21/01/2025 08:13

There’s nothing wrong with that question. Numbers are either greater than, equal to or less than others.
A sponsored Teacher Fight Day might be fun, though. Better than run of the mill CPD.

MoodEnhancer · 21/01/2025 08:04

Hmmm. The problem here is that you are incorrect, OP. In that example, it is right to use less, not fewer.

NancyJoan · 21/01/2025 08:03

The English teachers are too busy doing their marking.

IButtleSir · 21/01/2025 08:03

Incidentally, the primary school teachers who specialise in English rather than Maths tend to be the ones who don't know the meaning of the word "sum". (Can you tell I'm a bitter Maths specialist?)

IButtleSir · 21/01/2025 08:00

The entire set of real numbers isn't countable; it is continuous.