The brainlessness of an English Tutor. Fuming

Could that also be that some primary schools have not got children to the stage they need to be going into secondary education?

I know there were books with 'adult' content in our primary. I always remember we had to skip a chapter in one book as a parent didn't want us reading it. For the life of me cannot remember the name, but it was something about the American settlers making their way and something about carpet bags always stayed with me. But no it isn't the Harold Robbins book.

Think back to our childhoods and the subjects covered in Grange Hill, children of a similar age to OP's.

That’s an awful lot of words to say much the same as I did.

As both a parent and as a teacher, I never assume that a child is lying. To quote you, I “question and verify facts by all means and be aware that children give their perception (which is going to be the perception of a tween/teen).” What do you consider to be the difference between ‘their perception’ and a misleading account?

It would be undeniably dangerous to assume that a child is lying. Of course. It’s equally foolish to assume that a child will always give you the full story.

I've never heard that phrase used here. I stand corrected. What state was it?

You sound completely hysterical, maybe try yoga. Or mediation

So did we

You have no idea whatsoever why the teacher was in the mindset he was. Why are you calling him an idiot? It’s vile

I had a form tutor and my children do now, it's where you go for registration then onto class teachers for subjects, your form is your core group.

We did when I was at school.

We don't typically refer to teachers as "form tutors."

You can delete the thread by going into my account, then my list.

Oh come off it. My son has suffered the most egregious miscarriages of justice in school this year.

According to him.

Except he forgets that a. I've been a teacher almost twice his lifespan and he's basically spouting the 'not me 'guv spiel word for word and b. I know him.

He's not often poorly behaved in school, because it's really not worth it at home, but sometimes he behaves like the teenage dick he is. And gets caught doing so.

I also wonder whether 'it's only words ' was said in frustration. Kids often hate reading and will pick up on all kinds of things to distract/ get out of it. Not saying your dd was doing this, but it's wearyingly common.

E.g. the words 'gay' or 'queer' appearing in any text, ever, even though you explain the usage over time. We'll forgive Conan Dolye his ejaculations, because I do think he's trolling us all. Watson ejaculates constantly.

Or when reading a book with the odd swear word in it. It's always the most foul mouthed kids who suddenly take offence with seeing the word in print and have to exclaim loudly if anyone reads it out loud.

Steady on. After twenty years of teaching I can tell you that pretty much every child takes home ‘alternative facts’ from time to time, whether through outright fibs or by leaving out the crucial details which don’t happen to paint them in the best light.

Zero possibility that "pretty much every child takes home "alternative facts"". Taking home alternative facts would be an indication of a breach in relationship between parent and child, it is not "normal" for this to happen and I am not sure about the statistics about how many children do it, it most definitely should not be the assumption that all tweens and teens take home "alternative facts".

I can't tell you how dangerous it is to assume a child is lying. It is the sort of thing that can lead to suicide. A child lying to their parent about problems in school should not ever be the assumption. Question and verify facts by all means and be aware that children give their perception (which is going to be the perception of a tween/teen). But be very wary of accusing children of lying simply because of their age. It would be mind bogglingly incompetent to do that.

OP @crazymomma93 exactly what do you mean your daughter "changed the narrative of what the teacher had said to fit her own version"? What is her own version, and why did she feel she had to twist things when she talked to you about a book, and a teacher? What was the "real" version and what was her reason for changing it? I am going to hazard a guess that you will not be able to answer any of these questions, right?

@ThanksItHasPockets "pretty much all" children presenting "alternative facts" is about as likely as "pretty much all" teachers presenting "alternative facts".

I think I must have grown into emotions, because I don't think I was upset enough at a book to cry until my later teens. 1984 and For Whom the Bell Tolls stand out as the biggies.

Black Beauty stays with 8 yr old me for its depiction of cruelty to animals, and probably triggered my animal rights teen years.

Watership down, bought with birthday money around the same age, remained a firm favourite for, well, pushing 40 years. And that image of the poor shredded ears never really fades, in spite of all the other stuff I've read since. The most unsettling bits for me at that age were all the weird black rabbit dreams and the religious elements. But that's because I wanted more plot, nor esoteric weirdy shit.

In the vast majority of cases, a book making you uncomfortable means you should explore why through discussion, challenge and critical thinking. In almost all cases, the correct response is never to remove yourself from exposure to the book. As this book has been chosen by the English department of a school I think it’s incredibly unlikely that this would be one of the few cases where the book shouldn’t be read.

You know what ?. This is beyond belief. When I was 12 , you read what you were given for the subject . Tough sh*t if you found it uncomfortable…..you dealt with it, you learned from it…..has the world become this untenable that now children finding books “uncomfortable” is a thing ?. Is it not better to discuss the reasons why the book is causing discomfort, surely it’s better to deal with something face on than hide from it ? . At 12, I’d read No orchids for Miss Blandish, Lolita, Kill a mockingbird, Pin to see The peep show, The Well of loneliness, ….disconcerting, thought provoking….and I kept reading thought provoking, disconcerting, challenging novels….and went on to study English at Uni…..because you can’t learn by hiding from that which you find challenging. My Mum was a teacher- she didn’t discuss anything with me, I had to sort it in my own head, and so I did……Sorry, but teacher was right…”it is only words”…..get a grip OP.

I can’t remember whether it was year 7 or year 8 that a very enthusiastic trainee history (I think) teacher recommended Perfume to the entire class.

Probably not entirely appropriate, in hindsight.

if I saw my child upset, especially over something ruining their confidence, I would be angry too.

That is a pretty natural reaction. But since children dont have their full capacities yet, as adults we need to apply some critical thinking, assess what is going on, and possibly support or redirect them if appropriate. Not just take it and run with it, especially since as we have seen with this thread, children can misunderstand or misreport what is going on, or even twist things completely. Its also really concerning that being offended is considered such a deal breaker - no one has the right to expect this will never happen, and sometimes it is about dealing with it, or discussing and exploring this. I did English Lit A level - war poetry, Shakespeare, Jane Austen, so in contact with some really offensive ideas. Contextualized and used as the basis for a considered discussion, not just slapped with the label offensive and removed from view.

Unles it is 120 Days of Sodom... you are that mum.

Sorry just to say, it's not just schools, I asked for recommendations in Waterstones as my then 12 year old was galloping along, and having read many many of the suggestions he suggested A Clockwork Orange 😲

Wow. Teachers are real people and you need to calm down.

While I totally agree with you, Lord of the Rings (or Harry Potter as a previous poster used as the 'difficult' end of things) isn't the type of challenging stuff anyone has a problem with I don't think, it's more a long read. It's the sudden 'open doors' into quite adult content immediately after primary school. It's usually the keen readers we are talking about here, but my keen reader was put off for a long time by the sudden full on assault. Chooses some wonderful books now, and poetry, but I wish there was more of a gradient, it's quite brutal.

So this is another case when MN helped - fuming OP was able to fume anonymously here instead of at school and re-check with DD before taking further action. Good :)

In the same time, the book really seems focused on a bit older audience, and while I agree that books are the safest introduction to disturbing ideas for many, there is no real value in forcing this kind of unsettling staff on girls this early. The more disturbing stuff works better when it is self-inflicted (by choosing the book for myself from some selection, ideally slightly pre-warned)

There are many great books focused on pre-teens, or generally good books which work in any age, no reason to force YA which does have a specific age in mind.

Based on OP’s updates I don’t think it was a total fabrication. It sounds like she was economical with the truth and left out some key details.

Teens don't just lie to stay out of trouble. Mostly they do it in the hope of a quiet life. Sometimes they do it because they are feeling bruised or embarrassed after an encounter with an authority figure, and they tell a version of the story which will guarantee that the most important adults in their life take their side 🤷‍♀️.

Have you been drinking?? Your writing style and logic reminds me of my alcoholic ex.

Side note: this is why the country is haemorrhaging teachers.