The brainlessness of an English Tutor. Fuming

Given the particular topic of the book though there is a real responsibility for historical accuracy in my view

Yes, but historical fiction, which suggests that it has some basis in fact. Given its topic and its intended readership I think it’s really irresponsible.

Age 14+ when the kids are 12.....
There's a big difference between those two years

@ThanksItHasPockets and just to reiterate what i said in a slightly different way - Dr Laura Markham refers to looking after children without punishment - this is also based on decades worth of peer reviewed research (and Nancy Darling would therefore be aware of it too) - it is just one example of research based recommendations - so, basically, if schools and parents followed child development research, you would not have anywhere near 98 percent of children lying.

That is, the fault and mistake here is that there is a lot of child development research out there which could change lives and society it is not known about or ignored by parents and teachers

You say you work with children - as a teacher? But your training does not include child development research, is that right? And if it did, and all of your colleagues had the same training, and new parents had the same training, there would not be 98 percent of kids lying, and there would be more positive outcomes for millions of children, do you agree?

@crazymomma93 I apologise, I misquoted you by mistake, I have asked for the post to be deleted.

I apologise for mixing you up with the OP, I realised what I had done after hiding the thread.

So to go back to what you said about teenagers lying - I have just had a look at Nancy Darling's research and have found a couple of other sources which I think are more helpful way of presenting the same research, compared to giving a bare percentage:

Dr. Shefali Tsabary: "There is only one reason a child lies to its parents: the conditions for it to feel safe have not been created."

Dr Laura Markham (clinical psychologist with expertise around child development): "[This is what the research says about lying.] Many, if not most, kids lie. However, kids whose parents don't punish and who feel they can talk with their parents about their challenges generally do not lie to their parents. They have no reason to. Is is possible to raise kids without punishment? Absolutely. They turn out a whole lot better, in every way, because they become self-disciplined, once they aren't being disciplined from outside." [she gives a lot of other helpful and constructive advice on her website and there are some youtube videos in case anyone is interested]

So as you see the above draw on the same research as Nancy Darling, but the advice given is presented differently, that is, they give a different emphasis when presenting their advice.

To some extent the same thing is going to apply to school - if teens and tweens who would normally lie are put into a school environment where they feel safe, the likelihood of lying will diminish.

The bare percentage which jumps out at you from Nancy Darling is going to encourage adults who are not entirely scrupulous to manipulate when they are wanting to get away with abuse towards teens or tweens, unfortunately, so that is a shame. Although if teachers had training in child development research as standard, they might be able to distinguish.

It isn’t inappropriate though.

Should they not be promoting age appropriate literature though?

I’d happily answer your questions if I were the OP, but I’m not.

Did I just read

"How dare you undermine your colleagues on a forum, how rude and disrespectful is that? You’d be slaughtered in the staffroom if that got out!"

What??!! A teacher gave an opinion, and it is met with a basic threat? Is that really how teachers talk to one another? (I am not a teacher, so I wouldn't know)

This thread is not what I initially thought it was, so I am out.

Perception is the child's truth - seeing the world through the maturity and context of their maturity (at whatever age) and experience. Not making things up or giving alternative facts. So I don't think we said the same thing.

In some things a teen or tween will be able to give an accurate report. In other things they may give snippets which eventually build up a picture. Some will lie but if they do there will be a reason for it.

In terms of perception - child may say a teacher shouted, a teacher may say that they were firm but not shouting. Not the same thing as giving alternative facts - whatever way you look at it, the child felt intimidated for some reason so further exploration would be useful. Some teachers will simply say the child is lying dismiss concerns. You see the difference.

I don't agree that pretty much all teens or tweens are unreliable witnesses, so we differ there too. You don't assume a child is lying which is good but assuming children are unreliable witnesses is also dangerous.

Good to hear you don't assume children are lying though.

What is shameful is that you think that my point about teenagers not being believed can lead to suicide was trying to "score a point" - it isn't something you should have said. Did you answer my questions about why your DD lied to you about the teacher had said, what the problem was with the narratives, why she felt she had to mislead you about a book? If not, could you answer? As at the moment it doesn't make sense.

I didn't say teenagers do not ever lie to parents. But here we were talking about teenagers lying to parents about situations at school which they are not able to manage or control themselves. Where children need the support.

Think for a moment about high profile cases at the moment of tweens and teens not being able to seek support from those around them. If tweens and teens have normal strong connections with parents, it stops them from being manipulated by others.

What I said was correct. Do not assume a child is lying just because they are a teen or tween. Do not assume that most teens or tweens are lying to parents about what is going on at school as a "norm".

If you could answer my questions that would be great.

Wonder if you DD has a smart phone? She will be seeing and hearing way worse. Sorry but you are going way over the top

The midlands! That's it. I knew I'd seen plenty of Mumsnet posts explaining this in the past but couldn't remember the region

Mom has been the used term in the West Midlands forever

My daughter has severe dyslexia and for some reason "mom" makes more sense to her so she writes it that way.

I am sure I have also seen discussion on Mumsnet previously that "mom" is used in some regions of the UK as part of the dialect,.like "mam" is in others.

Plus I don't see anything inherently bad about creeping Americanisms. Language evolves.

(But then I am in my late 40s and still call my mother "Mummy" )

Please elaborate on that comment, it’s really quite funny (my dear)!

Don't try what?

Your last sentence makes no sense.

You, my dear, are the reason so many teachers leave the profession...

Perhaps ‘the message’ didn’t ’get through’ because I don’t have nearly as much time to scroll Mumsnet as you do and have never seen anyone use ‘Mom’ on here except North Americans.

And yeah, creeping Americanisation bothers me, not ashamed to admit it, so don’t try.