The brainlessness of an English Tutor. Fuming

Why do you keep going on about 12 years?

You can't explain how a child could avoid indoctrination that millions of adults could not resist.

I think the fact you think this indoctrination is 'laughable' says a lot about you.

The second response wasn't from me, I appreciated your response :)

I said you made really valid points, applying philosophical concepts, practically. But this isn't the situation in this case? She's not suggesting a primary school age child read ACO, unless I've missed something. If so, apologies. I agree with you that asking a small child to read violent gore would be bizarre but equally think her comments "it's only language" could likely reflect a perspective that ultimately words are neutral. I don't think we're arguing different corners here.

So you think I'm an idiot. Explain to me, as an idiot, how an 8 year old (the age of the boy in the book) could avoid indoctrination?

Yes.

An 8 year old who has only been given information from his family, from his school, from posters in the street, to his reading books to what is preached at church to what is on the radio and being shown in cinemas is going to believe that information.

How could they not?

They're not neutral. They don't stand alone. Words have more power than anything . The teacher was an idiot.

That's an interesting perspective and there's clearly merit to it. Clearly, language and words are wonderful - they can create worlds, provoke fear, laughter and joy. But ultimately- stood alone - they're neutral. Why is one word a swear word and not another? It's the human perception of them which induces these feelings. I'm just wondering, from a different perspective, if this is what the teacher meant regarding her comment. It really just shows how fascinating language is!

I see your reading comprehension is poor.

Did you deliberately ignore the parentheses?

Are you joking?

OK the child of a high ranking Nazi would be well aware of who Hitler was, that Jews were (according to his teachers and school work) no better than vermin. how would that character’s lack of knowledge impact a teen’s understanding of the horror of the holocaust. Children of nazis shouldn’t be tarred with the same brush as nazis

The holocaust could not have happened without the demonization of particular groups of people. That is the foundation of many atrocities, you start be demonising a group, make them responsible for everything bad.

But books aren't only words, they're concepts and often very strong imagery. If it doesn't matter why not teach A Clockwork Orange in Year 6, it is an interesting take on language after all?

Where do I start?

1. OK the child of a high ranking Nazi would be well aware of who Hitler was, that Jews were (according to his teachers and school work) no better than vermin.

2. No child would be at Auschwitz for more than a 1/2 day, maybe a day before they would be killed.

3. Children who did live in other camps were either working or undergoing medical experiments, they were not wandering around left to their own devices.

4. No one could just dig under an electric fence to get to the other side. They would have to contend with the electric shock, barbed wire, dogs and snipers.

5. the Nazis did not just round people up and gas them, they were meticulous about who they killed and when.

When Israel was finding its feet someone was given a list of names and numbers. They did not know it's relevance. A newly arrived immigrant police officer looked down the list, found his own name and matched the number on the list tot he tattoo on his arm.

6. The Jewish characters are just one dimensional passive observers of their own fate.

I agree with her actually. It is "just words". It's the meaning people attach to them which causes conflict and discussion. Language in itself isn't innately bad. Consider all the books that have been banned - it's largely for political reasons, rather than anything else. I'll be honest - I've not read much Harry Potter - but doesn't Dumbledore express this when he says there's no harm in saying Voldemort's name, it won't worsen the situation?
I would let her read them.
I wouldn't be a teacher.

What are you asking me to be sensible about? I KNOW this.

One of my reservations about TBITSP is that it contains inaccuracies (that matter).

A previous poster said, but it’s fiction.

I said, but it’s ‘historical fiction’ and as people read historical fiction, they tend to absorb the presentations of historical things in it and absorb them into what they unconsciously consider their historical knowledge.

Mostly it doesn’t matter. So what if gladiators rarely fought to the death and the thumbs down gesture just wasn’t a thing in Ancient Rome? But sometimes it does matter, and I would argue that in a book about the Holocaust, initially written for children, it does.

And I don’t know any history teacher who would use that book as a teaching aid. But it is recommended by well-meaning English teachers and librarians — which is how this whole sub-thread started.

My bad, I wasn't aware

There are some right cunts on this thread.