Page 11 | The brainlessness of an English Tutor. Fuming

Tristan5 · 21/01/2025 18:05

Just a couple of things…..

She’s an English teacher, not a tutor.

And why didn’t you contact her directly?

I think the whole thing, including your daughter’s reaction to a book, is completely over the top, bordering on ridiculous.

And I see nothing wrong with the ‘only words’ comment - the teacher was merely trying to get your daughter to see some perspective, can you not see that?

Your proposed mail to the teacher says all we need to know about the kind of parent you are, the very kind that is driving teachers out of the profession in their droves.

Dominoeffecter · 21/01/2025 18:05

Bit ott 😛

RedRoss86 · 21/01/2025 18:03

I was with you... until you lost your mind.

Snapandfart24 · 21/01/2025 18:03

Was - hand on heart - muttering about you clearly being a twat with no experience of teaching etc. and then read what you have posted. I read your posts (and only yours) in order.

Assuming I've not missed something, I know my fellow MN peers will fill me in very quickly if I'm wrong.

So. Absolutely be offended that she said it's, vjust words'. That alone would be sackable (let's go straight to hanging, why not!) in my world, although sadly that's besides the point.

The text is dubiously given for Y7 but that isn't age 14 as per rating (hence dubious). Who rated it so?
Call out the school and the exam board rather than the teacher for the material. Absolutely call out the English teacher for saying literature is just words.

I don't care what level you teach or what your background is. If - IF; and only if - you are in the role of Secondary School English Teacher in England today, or any day, and you refer to the works you are teaching the next generation as, "just words", then you're clearly a right cock-wombling wank puffin and the careers advisor fucked you right over. Probably because you're a c* and they spotted it early.

Please let me know if I got that wrong! I'm alarmed (and slightly disillusioned) by that majority vote.

BooneyBeautiful · 21/01/2025 18:00

Hercisback1 · 20/01/2025 19:35

You sound deranged. Chill a bit and don't email teachers swearing.

Perhaps they meant "it's just words" as in don't let it get to you, it's not real.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe it was meant in a reassuring way, so that the OP's DD didn't get too upset about the 'words'.

Changedforadvice · 21/01/2025 17:59

crazymomma93 · 21/01/2025 15:41

Hi so I have not had chance to catch up with all posts, this thread blew up like I did not expect. No my grammar is not A but it gets me by in life. No I do not breath down my childrens teachers necks either. The comment shocked me, if it was said how my DD had retold to me I would stand by it. I would never dream of calling the teacher a c**. I am not that person, but it was an expression of feeling in relation of "it's just words".
The book is chosen by the english dept for the whole year take, to read during tutor time, to discuss it as a class and open up class disscussions about it. The school is far more than I am used to, they have written work for PE and ICT. I know that wasn't the case when I was in YR7.
Anyway after I grounded myself, annon post I will never do again, I spoke with my DD. Turns out she has indeed changed the narrative of what the teacher had said to fit her own version, so in turn I was being a dick because I didn't know the full story (thanks DD). Also there are a few children, girls might I add, who have also been pulled (by parents) from reading the book.
I will admit I have not read it myself but from the blurb, reviews and a few snippets of the story I myself am uncomfortable with it.
I have deep chats with DD about appropriate clothing choices, make up and how to present yourself. About how some SA victims can be victim blamed and how there is a culture of its just men. So a book about basically lust, making her uneasy, I do not think at 12 years old she should have to read.
In the way in which the matter was first brought to me, I stand by being gobsmacked. How dare a teacher minimise the feelings of a child. But as I said the conversation was more indepth than that. I tried to delete the thread but the years Ive been on here, I actually don't know how it works. Thank you to those who understood what I was trying to say.

I'm not sure, from what you've said here, that the feelings of a child have been minimised. If the book has been assessed by the English department and deemed suitable for the year group, I'm wondering how unsuitable the content can be? I mean, Shakespeare can't be far off for them and he just about covers it all. Because that, after all, is the purpose of literature; to shine a light on the human condition, in all it's ignomy and glory.

The idea, which I think is an honorable one, it to allow children to read, think and discuss their feelings around the subject matter of the text and indeed of what it means to be human. If the text makes your daughter feel uncomfortable, would it not be better for her to be equipped with the tools to say how and why, in the secure and safe environment of the classroom, with guidance of trained adults?

I sympathise with you, as parents none of us wants to expose our children to that which might be harmful. In this instance I think the school are providing your child with the skills to explore, discuss, debate and criticise ideas in a way which will stand her in good stead when she encounters ideas that make her feel uncomfortable in future.

Toptops · 21/01/2025 17:56

You are overreacting

Sausagehead · 21/01/2025 17:54

We supply our children with their own books. School supplied books stay in their bags and the diary is ticked. School don't have a clue and quite frankly couldn't give a sh*t. It's probably best to lower your expectations.

OldScribbler · 21/01/2025 17:52

crazymomma93 · 20/01/2025 19:22

Long time lurker, please bear with me.
My DD12 has been having some issues with her reading book. It has been making her feel uncomfortable, from the Genre and style of writing. So I have looked into it, got a jist of the book, she has pointed out some bits that made her uneasy and I looked up the age rating which was 14+. Now typically if you knew me, you would know I am not "that Mom" but I emailed her Form Tutor to ask if there was an alternative. Tutor emailed back after talking to English dept and DD dosn't need to read the book any longer, she can bring in her own. No problem. My DD has just told me she spoke with her own English Tutor, the day before I sent the email to tell her Form Tutor. After listening to DD, English Tutor responds "it's just words"
ITS JUST WORDS? Sorry is that not pretty much the Tutors whole career, teaching English?
I need calming because I am close to emailing said teacher calling her a c**t, because, you know "it's just words". See how her feelings are when she reads something that makes her uncomfortable.
My DD turned to her to ask because the book was making her uneasy and that is the response. What about children who get verbally bullied? Where is this Womans morals. AIBU?

Having spent 70 years making a good living from words I have a great love of them, but I don't think this particular selection merits so much emotion

MiloMinderbinder · 21/01/2025 17:51

Well, as so often on mumsnet: whatever you say, if it makes sense to you. I read grown-up (never adult, they were not available) I found on my parents’ shelves when I was ten. They were often “disturbing” and helped prepare my mind for grown-up thinking when I grew up. That is what I would like literature - and art - to do. But: whatever you think and say

ruethewhirl · 21/01/2025 17:50

Viviennemary · 20/01/2025 19:48

You sound like a hysterical fusspot. What a carry on over a book.

And you sound like a misogynist.

NewFriendlyLadybird · 21/01/2025 17:48

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 17:11

You hardly think a 13yo is priggish?! He obviously just felt it was a little old for him just yet. I don't think that should be a negative. He's put it away for another time.

Show quote history

I make no comment about your son, but about a worldview that separates books for children and young adults into ‘appropriate’ and ‘not appropriate’.

They’re not all good, in the sense of literary merit. And it’s quite possible that individual teenagers may find some sub genres uninteresting. But books aimed at young readers are really carefully written and edited, with publishers having developed real expertise in what is going to excite and challenge teenagers, and introduce them to new ideas and different perspectives.

Fair enough if a child says ‘not for me’ or ‘not for me yet’, but I don’t think you should pride yourself on encouraging what I think of as a rather closed mindset.

FallOfTheHouseOfUtterlyButterly · 21/01/2025 17:40

So you acknowledge your DD didn't tell you the whole truth, surprise surprise, but still stand by your reaction which is irrelevant as the event didn't actually happen?

Doubledenim305 · 21/01/2025 17:40

Might be worth thinking why u found it so triggering?

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 17:29

ThanksItHasPockets · 21/01/2025 17:26

If he’s a young 13 I suspect he was put off by the kissing! It is a great book once he is ready for it. You can reassure him that there’s not much snogging in the grand scheme of things

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Great thank you. He's read her younger books so I know he likes her as an author.

I do agree with pp that covering unknown or difficult topics through books is a good way of demystifying and exploring those topics. DN17 is quite anxious and avoidant of certain things that we wouldn't have blinked at growing up as we'd have read about it and as a result been more ok with it (drugs, suicide etc.)

ThanksItHasPockets · 21/01/2025 17:26

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 17:10

That's brilliant. I had heard good things so got it for him. He's a young 13 so he'll look forward to it at a later stage. Glad I didn't get something totally off.

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If he’s a young 13 I suspect he was put off by the kissing! It is a great book once he is ready for it. You can reassure him that there’s not much snogging in the grand scheme of things

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 17:11

NewFriendlyLadybird · 21/01/2025 16:58

I thought Noughts and Crosses was excellent. I struggle to see why it was not ‘appropriate’. It’s such a priggish outlook.

A book is well written or badly written. That is all.

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You hardly think a 13yo is priggish?! He obviously just felt it was a little old for him just yet. I don't think that should be a negative. He's put it away for another time.

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 17:10

ThanksItHasPockets · 21/01/2025 16:50

For what it’s worth, Noughts and Crosses is generally considered appropriate for 13 year olds and it is widely taught in year 9. There is a consensual sex scene fairly late in the book which results in a character becoming pregnant, a suicide (sensitively handled), and accounts of violence. There is a plot involving terrorist activity and this is handled very well indeed. There are no racial slurs as Blackman invents these for the world of the novel.

Fair enough if it’s not your DS’s cup of tea but it’s not inappropriate for 13 year olds and it’s a superb novel. The opening chapters have a rather sweet and very chaste kiss but that’s really it.

Show quote history

That's brilliant. I had heard good things so got it for him. He's a young 13 so he'll look forward to it at a later stage. Glad I didn't get something totally off.

NewFriendlyLadybird · 21/01/2025 16:58

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 16:38

This was my feeling on it, and others mentioned context. Fair play OP for coming clean, so to speak, don't delete the thread at all. My 13yo started Noughts and Crosses, it was in the teen section, and v quickly closed it and said it's not appropriate. I was impressed he was able to see that and close the book. Your daughter wasn't comfortable and that's ok.

I thought Noughts and Crosses was excellent. I struggle to see why it was not ‘appropriate’. It’s such a priggish outlook.

A book is well written or badly written. That is all.

ThanksItHasPockets · 21/01/2025 16:50

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 16:38

This was my feeling on it, and others mentioned context. Fair play OP for coming clean, so to speak, don't delete the thread at all. My 13yo started Noughts and Crosses, it was in the teen section, and v quickly closed it and said it's not appropriate. I was impressed he was able to see that and close the book. Your daughter wasn't comfortable and that's ok.

For what it’s worth, Noughts and Crosses is generally considered appropriate for 13 year olds and it is widely taught in year 9. There is a consensual sex scene fairly late in the book which results in a character becoming pregnant, a suicide (sensitively handled), and accounts of violence. There is a plot involving terrorist activity and this is handled very well indeed. There are no racial slurs as Blackman invents these for the world of the novel.

Fair enough if it’s not your DS’s cup of tea but it’s not inappropriate for 13 year olds and it’s a superb novel. The opening chapters have a rather sweet and very chaste kiss but that’s really it.

mikado1 · 21/01/2025 16:38

This was my feeling on it, and others mentioned context. Fair play OP for coming clean, so to speak, don't delete the thread at all. My 13yo started Noughts and Crosses, it was in the teen section, and v quickly closed it and said it's not appropriate. I was impressed he was able to see that and close the book. Your daughter wasn't comfortable and that's ok.

Bringmeahigherlove · 21/01/2025 16:28

crazymomma93 · 21/01/2025 15:41

Hi so I have not had chance to catch up with all posts, this thread blew up like I did not expect. No my grammar is not A but it gets me by in life. No I do not breath down my childrens teachers necks either. The comment shocked me, if it was said how my DD had retold to me I would stand by it. I would never dream of calling the teacher a c**. I am not that person, but it was an expression of feeling in relation of "it's just words".
The book is chosen by the english dept for the whole year take, to read during tutor time, to discuss it as a class and open up class disscussions about it. The school is far more than I am used to, they have written work for PE and ICT. I know that wasn't the case when I was in YR7.
Anyway after I grounded myself, annon post I will never do again, I spoke with my DD. Turns out she has indeed changed the narrative of what the teacher had said to fit her own version, so in turn I was being a dick because I didn't know the full story (thanks DD). Also there are a few children, girls might I add, who have also been pulled (by parents) from reading the book.
I will admit I have not read it myself but from the blurb, reviews and a few snippets of the story I myself am uncomfortable with it.
I have deep chats with DD about appropriate clothing choices, make up and how to present yourself. About how some SA victims can be victim blamed and how there is a culture of its just men. So a book about basically lust, making her uneasy, I do not think at 12 years old she should have to read.
In the way in which the matter was first brought to me, I stand by being gobsmacked. How dare a teacher minimise the feelings of a child. But as I said the conversation was more indepth than that. I tried to delete the thread but the years Ive been on here, I actually don't know how it works. Thank you to those who understood what I was trying to say.

Shock. Teenager twists conversation to fit her own narrative. If parents could try and remember what they were like as teenagers and how many fibs/embellishments they told to their parents, that would be great. It would mean teachers could get on with teaching instead of having to ring complaining parents every day.

ARealitycheck · 21/01/2025 16:27

Just to add. I don't know the context of the 'Just Words' statement. But it would be an interesting topic for the teacher to discuss. I don't agree at all with the teacher in this case.

Words can cause any amount of different results. A silly example would be the statement is from a friend saying I am quite mad. Put those same words written by a criminal psychologist in a medical report, and the results are completely different. Context is everything.

Hercisback1 · 21/01/2025 16:24

"minimise the feelings"....grow up.

Your DD told you a load of BS. You fell for it and now look a fool.

ARealitycheck · 21/01/2025 16:21

crazymomma93 · 21/01/2025 15:41

Hi so I have not had chance to catch up with all posts, this thread blew up like I did not expect. No my grammar is not A but it gets me by in life. No I do not breath down my childrens teachers necks either. The comment shocked me, if it was said how my DD had retold to me I would stand by it. I would never dream of calling the teacher a c**. I am not that person, but it was an expression of feeling in relation of "it's just words".
The book is chosen by the english dept for the whole year take, to read during tutor time, to discuss it as a class and open up class disscussions about it. The school is far more than I am used to, they have written work for PE and ICT. I know that wasn't the case when I was in YR7.
Anyway after I grounded myself, annon post I will never do again, I spoke with my DD. Turns out she has indeed changed the narrative of what the teacher had said to fit her own version, so in turn I was being a dick because I didn't know the full story (thanks DD). Also there are a few children, girls might I add, who have also been pulled (by parents) from reading the book.
I will admit I have not read it myself but from the blurb, reviews and a few snippets of the story I myself am uncomfortable with it.
I have deep chats with DD about appropriate clothing choices, make up and how to present yourself. About how some SA victims can be victim blamed and how there is a culture of its just men. So a book about basically lust, making her uneasy, I do not think at 12 years old she should have to read.
In the way in which the matter was first brought to me, I stand by being gobsmacked. How dare a teacher minimise the feelings of a child. But as I said the conversation was more indepth than that. I tried to delete the thread but the years Ive been on here, I actually don't know how it works. Thank you to those who understood what I was trying to say.

Thank you for your honesty. Children are bloody clever at making grown ups look stupid. 😉

I enjoyed reading as a child, so my opinion may not be the same as others. But I do think text that stretches the mind with group discussion after is good for the growing mind. Your daughter can discuss the bits that made her uncomfortable and why. As long as that opinion is given fair hearing along with others in class, then it is healthy for her.