To be a teacher who is now looking for a career as a barrister or a solicitor

It looks seriously stressful to me, being your own clerk as well as actually doing the work!

A few things would stop that for a barrister.

Firstly, you'd need to have completed pupillage to get the practising certificate, and pupillage is the real bottleneck at the bar.

Secondly, you have to be in a Chambers for a minimum period before you can set up on your own - I think it's 3 years post-pupillage.

Thirdly, the admin and regulatory stuff would be tricky to manage.

Fourthly, it's as a very junior barrister you are most reliant on Chambers for getting work - the junior stuff either comes into Chambers and the clerks allocate it, or is returned from more senior and busier tenants.

Thanks. I have just looked it up and it is three years of practising with a qualified person, although that can include the employed bar, so there’s the answer to my musing…

https://www.barcouncilethics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Sole-practitioners-1-2.pdf

"You could also try taking a mock bar aptitude test to see if you are intelligent enough, but I’d probably have to say training as a barrister post 40 is not really likely to be a viable option for a wide range of reasons."

I'm sure it's not easy @MrsPinkCock but I certainly wouldn't go as far as "not viable". I know a lot of pupils and newly-qualified barristers who were late 30s to late 40s when they started pupillage.

Also, it's better to be in Chambers as you have colleagues to cover work you can't do, clerks and admin staff to manage bookings and billings. I'm not aware of anyone (except for maybe a few v experienced people with their own secretaries etc) who's done as well alone as in a Chambers.

Barristers have to practice in a chambers with someone who is more qualified than them for the first few years so this can't happen. Also, it would be extremely hard to get going without clerks or respected senior practitioners.

For criminal defence and family law public children (i.e care cases) legal aid is available for some and those who have to pay would generally rather shell out slightly more for quality than go to the bottom end of the market when they are facing one of the most important things in life they'll ever face.

You are only allowed to do this after X number of years practise. You've also got to make sure your have a decent system in place to handle court dates that you can't do/clashes/what happens if a case over runs etc. All possible once you've been in the 'job' for a few years, but it's harder than it seems.

It's a good option for someone who wants to just take on a few bits, who is willing to space them out etc, but you'd struggle to maintain as full a diary as you would in chambers.

Forgot to add, there’s also being a McKenzie Friend, although that might be difficult to do alongside teaching,

Welfare advice and guidance volunteering (such as the CAB) might also be a way to get relevant experience?

On another note, I have sometimes wondered what would stop a motivated mature candidate (with some money behind them and an area of specialist knowledge or expertise) simply setting up on their own as a barrister once they had their practising certificate? So they could form their own chambers and give themselves a tenancy. Or starting up their own firm as a solicitor?

Work would be slow at first but, given the state of things in the legal system, I imagine that it would come sooner or later if the rates were right.

It wouldn’t work for someone wanting to build a career, raise a family and pay off a mortgage, but if that was not an issue for a mature candidate, it would bypass some of the issues of the traditional route e.g. competing against twenty-somethings.

OP

Please don’t give up. There’s a new way taking over now to qualify as a solicitor called the SQE1 and 2. It will replace the LPC and GDL.

it reduces the cost considerably. You can also self study for it. Look for books on Amazon and see what you think.

The exams are intense. 2 x 2.5h exams twice for each test. The exams themselves are not cheap.

Some solicitors offer part time training contract, not many but they do exist.

Good luck.

You don’t need to convert your degree anymore. Look into the SQE exams/courses. The SQE route to becoming solicitor means that your experience as a paralegal also counts towards your 2 year work experience so you do not need a training contract.

I didn't.

Its a bit of a misconception actually that it's well paid. Some areas of law are actually very poorly paid.

I'm a solicitor and my law firm paid for all my education post undergrad and gave me a grant to live off. Granted, this is commercial law so may not be what you're interested in. However, if you are interested in that type of law, you should start applying for vacation schemes now. Salaries and work/life balance vary wildly. I work in London in the City, so it's intense but extremely well paid. If you work in a non-commercial area of law, the salaries will be much much lower. Its not unusual to get the odd older trainee who is changing career, so you wouldn't be the first by any stretch. Good luck!

This is very true. There are plenty of jobs in law and elsewhere that demand more and pay the same as/less than teaching, but without the regular scheduled time off from core duties. Although, some people work better (eg can organise their lives outside of work more easily to absorb work demands, can long term plan more effectively) under more constant pressure rather than start-stop, so a move away from teaching is better for them. It does end up being more expensive when you have dependent children though - five weeks leave (if you're lucky) a year doesn't stretch very far when your kids are off for 13 weeks + insets.

I just want to check that you've fully grasped that this would mean more hours, more pressure, more stress and few breaks?

You've mentioned a few times now about your difficulties in teaching with workload/stress/needing the holidays when they arrive. Being blunt, if you are struggling with the pressure/workload of teaching, then law (especially the Bar) is absolutely NOT for you.

I'm not saying don't go from teaching to the Bar, but do it if you have passion for it PLUS you find the teachers workload fine and the idea of increasing hours/stress drastically doesn't concern you.

CPS- external candidates can apply for training contracts or pupilage or join as qualified lawyers.
Internal employees in other roles can currently apply for financial support for exams and then internal only routes to qualifying. I have I friend that's recently done the internal route in her 50s. Exceptionally hard work and really competitive for places.
Work wise it's massively under funded, the work load is insane. When looking at the salary take the lowest figure because you'll rarely get paid more than that, pay only progresses through union negotiations, there's no progression up the scale since austerity.
It's a vital job though, you see the best and worst of humanity. I think the public service is probably on par with teaching for feel good feeling.
In the CPS there's no difference between barristers and solicitors. No one cares which you are, doesn't affect pay or which roles you can do (save for crown advocate solicitors need an extra exam the barristers don't need to do).

I worked at the CPS for 12 years until 2014, so I can't really speak for how it is there now. My role was akin to a paralegal who provided support to counsel, whether it was in house or external.
There was a general consensus that the CPS in house barristers were there because they couldn't hack it at in private practice. But the CPS staff were: guaranteed work, a steady salary, had travel paid for, pensions, didn't have to worry about doing their taxes and paid holidays and sick leave.
Personally I loved working there. If I had stayed, I'd have considered working my way up. Plenty of my colleagues did the same, and it was funded as well, including pupillage.
But this was before the government "austerity cuts" fucked it all up, so I can't really speak to how it is now.
As to whether it's worth retraining now, you could be looking at a good few years, including a few where your salary would be considerably less until you qualify. I believe pupillage (which is the final stage for qualifying for the Bar) is a 12 month period where you work full time under the supervision of a qualified barrister. It pays about £21k for the year (a bit more if you're in London). And it is extremely competitive.
At the CPS, I think you would have to be working there before they offer this.

I'm a similar age to you, and I really don't think I would retrain as a barrister at this stage. Possibly a solicitor, or finding another role in the CPS and working my way up.

Sorry but it sounds as if this might be very challenging for you then. Teacher here and I know how much work is involved in the conversion course .

Am in criminal practice happy to have a chat about transferring.

OP, I used to work in education and then became a barrister in my mid thirties. It’s not too late for you, and life experience/ experience outside of the law is highly desirable. If you want to be a criminal barrister I strongly recommend that you apply for work experience (called a mini pupillage) with criminal chambers. This will give you a good insight into the realities of the job. I have a mixed practice and do some criminal law, but I would never work solely in crime. As a defence barrister, my perception is that prosecution barristers for the CPS have crazy workloads - a huge number of cases. The pupillage is tough too - I met people who would routinely work from 7am until 10 or 11 at night.

The CPS route is better because it’s employed ( self employed criminal barristers can earn as little as 12k a year in early practice) but you will have to work very hard. When I’m doing a trial my working days are 14 hours +. Consider your current work/life balance and if you are prepared to sacrifice evenings and weekends for a case.

You also have to factor in that unfortunately the criminal justice system is just broken at the moment. It’s not unusual for defendants to not turn up to court (because the police van doesn’t pick them up). Sometimes there just aren’t any defence barristers or even judge available so your case is adjourned. The court buildings are falling to bits. This makes the job more stressful.

Aside from doing work experience, why don’t you consider volunteering in the witness service or as a magistrate? This will give you a great insight. Also, have you thought about why you want to be a criminal barrister only as opposed to working in a mixed practice? If you did mixed work you could still work in crime but also do other things that bring more money in - like education law.

one more thing… if you don’t have a GDL the inns of court (grays, Lincoln’s , inner temple and middle temple) have scholarships that you can apply for. They will pay for your course fees and the bar course as well. It’s definitely worth applying.

Not necessarily

I'm neither a teacher nor in a legal profession. but know lots of teachers and several solicitors/barristers, and worked in a very demanding, high pressure environment myself.

Most of my teacher friends think that every other profession is paid a lot more money for doing a lot less work and under less pressure than teaching. - it simply isn't true. In a few cases maybe, but not across tbe board. Be very clear about that.

Whilst I know that teachers spend time working during the holidays, they aren't doing 12-14 hour days throughout the holidays - don't underestimate the value of the break from the relentless pressure for many more weeks that you would in another high pressure profession.

I'm absolutely not saying don't do it, but be sure you go in with your eyes wide open- you've been given good advice on here.

Personally, your job journey sounds like mine. I spent several years loving my job. Then I hated it as it was stressful. I am an optician. Then I decided to study more and become a better optician. Now I love it again and I never get stressed. I am so happy that I didn't disturb my pension. It's like cooking, we do it every day, you can turn the experience into a dream or creative experience.
What caused my job crisis was from my past. My parents were never settled.
So be careful, it may be your dream but it maybe the devil that gives it to you.
I know about the kids and parents. It's crazy! I now study my job quite a bit and currently writing a paper on AI for opticians.

My neighbour has become a solicitor in her early 40's (started in 30's) but she had a law degree from university, she was working for the council in the legal department already and so took the professional exams part time. She then went to work for a law first part qualified. She really enjoys is but hours are very long, I see her sat at her desk til 8pm most nights or arriving home if she has been into the office. She can only do the hours because her husband takes the kids to school and her parents collect every day and her mum cooks the family meal every day.