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To call the police to conduct a wellness check for my hoarder neighbour?

188 replies

Atmywitsend23 · 18/01/2025 15:59

I had posted last week about an awful smell in my new apartment hallway. It transpires my neighbour has been a hoarder for 15yrs and there’s amongst other things, vermin and sewage issues in her apartment. The smell is so incredibly awful that it consumes the hallway and my apartment too. I’ve contacted my landlord, the building owner and the housing regulator to try and get some help to deal with the situation. Nobody seems to be able to do much. Would it be unreasonable to call police or social services for a wellness check? Surely when things are this bad there is a significant mental health issue and someone has a duty of care in this situation?

OP posts:
ThePure · 22/01/2025 10:08

If you are renting I would also give notice and leave . You have no power to resolve this and it will just be frustrating

I have considerable professional experience of this stuff and it takes ages to resolve and will go on for probably years as ultimately it is an intractable problem and she has to live somewhere so if they evict her from her she'll do it again somewhere else.

IsawwhatIsaw · 22/01/2025 10:05

Agree with others, I would move. This is likely to drag on and on.
if she has capacity to manage her affairs and make decisions, however bad/ unsafe, they can’t compel her to act.
The only intervention I saw was someone with a gas cooker. Finally when gas was smelt it was obviously an immediate risk to adjacent tenants and he was moved out.

user2848502016 · 22/01/2025 10:05

Atmywitsend23 · 21/01/2025 21:40

Thank you all for your advice. Unfortunately the situation has got considerably worse. Environmental health visited the building and tried to investigate. She refused to co-operate or open the door to them, however they could smell sewage from the hallway. They posted a letter to her that said she needed to contact them regarding the issue as there had been complaints. That night in response, she defecated in the hallway and smeared it on the wall in what I can only assume was a protest?! I have been in touch with environmental health again today who said they can’t do anything more. The housing association has said they will investigate but won’t give any more information due to GDPR. I have told the housing association that if it’s not resolved by the end of the week I’ll call the police and issue a welfare concern for her. I’m not sure they can do much though!

Isn't this a police matter now? Deliberate public defecation must be a crime 🤢?!

ThePure · 22/01/2025 10:02

I would have called police about the smearing as that seems it must be an offence
I would not call them for a welfare check. They will not do that given we know she is alive

I also think a social care safeguarding referral for self neglect is a good idea. In our area you can refer online via the local government portal and anyone can refer. I would imagine someone has already done this though.

I would not call mental health services. Sometimes people do live like this through choice and it's not a mental health issue. Mental health services would find it very hard to act without either a) consent or b) a diagnosed mental illness or more evidence than you have of there being one.

The housing association clearly will be taking action on this and they can't tell you about it because her tenancy isn't your business. The wheels of these things do grind very slowly

LushLemonTart · 22/01/2025 10:00

@Atmywitsend23 can you move?

user8432176409 · 22/01/2025 09:56

I’d be looking to move house. If indeed there is a solution to this, I suspect it could be years away At least as a tenant you won’t be trying to sell your flat, good luck to that estate agent!

Chucklecheeks01 · 22/01/2025 09:36

Phone your local fire brigade and asked to speak to a fire safety officer. If you explain that you believe the state of the premises is a fire hazard they can visit for an inspection.

Feelinghurt2 · 22/01/2025 09:33

Feelinghurt2 · 22/01/2025 08:58

I was wondering this. Apparently it is a criminal offence in Scotland. I agree that calling the Police about this issue alone would hopefully lead to the Police involving Social Services and/or the NHS. Smearing faeces is a sign of severe mental illness.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-crime-recording-standard-crime-recording-counting-rules-2/pages/20/

In addition, I would be inclined to call Adult Social Services and say that you would like to make an adult safeguarding referral for self-neglect. I've looked at the criteria for Scotland and they mention hoarding and fire risks as being among issues that count as self-neglect.

LuluBlakey1 · 22/01/2025 09:31

My advice would be move.

WomenInConstruction · 22/01/2025 09:04

Rosscameasdoody · 22/01/2025 08:55

They don’t have the right to live as they please if they are impacting others. OP said the smell is overwhelming and is affecting not only the hallway but her own flat. Mental health problems or not, that can’t be allowed to continue and Environmental Health should be involved.

Agree, but the action process is loooong (issue notice, wait notice period, escalate to stiffer notice, wait notice period etc etc) even if the outcome is resolution.

Op would be better off just opting out if that's even possible.

GlitchStitch · 22/01/2025 09:02

Waffle19 · 22/01/2025 03:31

Could you call 111 and select option 2? That’s the option for speaking to someone about mental health, I’m not sure whether they would be able to help as neighbour not engaging with you, but they might be able to help with signposting for further support?

I really don’t think police would be able to do anything although I guess there might now be some crime in terms of what she’s now done to the hall which they might then be able to put referrals into social services etc.

I’d also contact the fire service and report concerns around hoarding. Basically get her on every radar you can.

They wouldn't be able to make any referrals without speaking to the person directly. They could only signpost OP and would likely advise her to ring social services/ housing association/ environmental health which she is already doing. It's very unlikely the police would attend (in my part of England anyway, not sure about Scotland).

Feelinghurt2 · 22/01/2025 08:58

Wasywasydoodah · 21/01/2025 23:37

Smearing in a public place is surely some kind of criminal offence? So I’m thinking you call the police in the hope that this will get them involved and making welfare referrals that are less likely to be ignored

I was wondering this. Apparently it is a criminal offence in Scotland. I agree that calling the Police about this issue alone would hopefully lead to the Police involving Social Services and/or the NHS. Smearing faeces is a sign of severe mental illness.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-crime-recording-standard-crime-recording-counting-rules-2/pages/20/

Scottish Crime Recording Standard: Crime Recording and Counting Rules

Crime recording and counting rules for the Scottish Crime Recording Standard (SCRS). These are overseen, approved, maintained and developed by the Scottish Crime Recording Board (SCRB).

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-crime-recording-standard-crime-recording-counting-rules-2/pages/20

Rosscameasdoody · 22/01/2025 08:55

olderbutwiser · 18/01/2025 19:15

Don’t get your hopes up too much - people have the right to live as they please, and hoarding is a very very intractable mental health issue. While SS may investigate they are unlikely to be able to do much if your neighbour is living independently.

They don’t have the right to live as they please if they are impacting others. OP said the smell is overwhelming and is affecting not only the hallway but her own flat. Mental health problems or not, that can’t be allowed to continue and Environmental Health should be involved.

butterpuffed · 22/01/2025 08:43

Your local council will be able to check her property and have all the correct connections to help .

LookItsMeAgain · 22/01/2025 08:34

Atmywitsend23 · 19/01/2025 00:11

Thank you for your replies. The building is owned by a housing association but is a combination of private lets and HA tenants. I have been in touch with the housing association multiple times about this. All they say is “there is an ongoing investigation” and they won’t/can’t share anything else. I appreciate it is a delicate subject, and there are obviously some significant mental health issues present, but it is making the rest of the accommodation incredibly difficult to live in.

Can you tackle the Housing Association when they say that there is an 'ongoing investigation' but asking them what format that investigation is taking? Are they visiting the location and taking photos or visiting the location and getting specimens (of what I don't know) but ask them how they are doing the investigation - do they need to talk with other residents, that kind of thing. You could also ask them how far along in the investigation they are as you are having to live with the stench (I would start using more forceful adjectives to describe what you're living through) and it isn't good for your mental health or physical health.
The Housing Assoc. has a responsibility to you too so you are only trying to help them reach the necessary conclusion for their report.

SuperMaybe · 22/01/2025 08:21

www.gov.uk/guidance/statutory-nuisances-how-councils-deal-with-complaints

This is the relevant info from gov.com. Environmental health departments can have surprisingly powerful rights to enter private properties.

SuperMaybe · 22/01/2025 08:20

That night in response, she defecated in the hallway and smeared it on the wall in what I can only assume was a protest?! I have been in touch with environmental health again today who said they can’t do anything more

The environmental health department are required to act if there is a statutory nuisance. They don't have any choice in the matter. You being able to smell a sewage smell in your flat because of the actions of your neighbour seems pretty clear cut to me. The council are required to serve an abatement order and if your neighbour doesn't comply with it ( which she almost certainly wouldn't) the council could prosecute and/or carry out the work to resolve the issue and take proceedings to recover the money.

The Environmental Health Department are trying to fob you off. I'd write to them and get them to reply in writing. If they are still fobbing you off try getting a councillor involved and telling them you willl be going to the local government ombudsman

When you write to them detail how bad the smell is from within your flat and provide photos of the hallway incident.

Don't let them fob you off.

MyDeftDuck · 22/01/2025 08:14

Defacating in a public area and smearing faeces on walls are not only disgusting but they are also a deliberate act of vandalism.

However, calling the police on what, in the great scheme of things is a minor issue compared to GBH, stabbings, shootings, etc.

In your situation I would follow advice from 1nutcracker and Justlurking101 as this seems to be the only way forward. You get the neighbour the help and support she needs and you get out of that environment.

Justlurking101 · 22/01/2025 07:57

In prison they call this a dirty protest, please move! Is this not your responsibility!!

beadystar · 22/01/2025 07:55

I would say document everything you can and tell your landlord that you are no longer paying rent given the circumstances. If she's smearing, this is only going to get worse until there is a massive intervention. In the meantime, look for somewhere else to live. Landlord will be a lot quicker to step in when it effects them too. What a horrible situation for all.

Jellycats4life · 22/01/2025 07:45

I was going to suggest moving last night actually.

If no one has the authority to intervene, I’d leave them all to the literal shithole and find somewhere else to live.

sheep73 · 22/01/2025 07:40

This sounds awful. I would move.

BlwyddynNewydd · 22/01/2025 07:33

You can also make a safeguarding referral to the fire service. They need to know if there's a hoarding issue.

In the event of a fire, they need to know about the flat. It increases the risk for everyone in the block and the neighbouring buildings.

There will be a safeguarding email/phine number on the website for the local fire service.

Severe hoarding can be deemed a mental health issue, and there can be measures taken using the Mental health act. But this doesn't seem be used often.

ThePoshUns · 22/01/2025 07:30

I'd serve notice and request a reduction on your rate.

WomenInConstruction · 22/01/2025 07:27

Even if your landlord was working to try to 'rectify the situation' what can they actually do. The phrase just makes it sound official and as though action is but a decision away.
But nothing is going to change the way she lives, you can't lock her up in prison, you can't section her indefinitely. So what's left?

Even if they force entry to clear all the stuff up it would be back to normal in no time.
There's always eviction and homelessness I suppose which is a grim thought.

Are there other options for renting op? In your position I'd just move out if it's at all possible.