To call the police to conduct a wellness check for my hoarder neighbour?

Hi, OP, if you can't afford to move, then definitely do post in legal to see if there's an aspect of your tenancy which your landlord is in breach of. Even the threat of action might get you a discount so you save up to move.

The smearing is in a shared space in a private dwelling, not a public place so will be on the housing association if they own the building not the police. Hoarding will be against the terms of her tenancy agreement so they will be working with her but it will be a very slow process, they won’t want to criminalise her or make her homeless as a vulnerable person and will presumably work on small improvements and get other agencies in to help. Basically before they evict her they will have to show the court they have done everything they can to support her as hoarding is looked at as a mental health issue. Sorry op, this won’t be a quick fix and must be so uncomfortable for you to live alongside even though she can’t help it.

You can be prosecuted for letting your dog defecate on the pavement and not picking it up. Human excrement in a communal hallway must be worse than that. I'm sure the police could be involved on that basis.

From a Housing perspective you need to report to your local fire brigade that your neighbours home is likely a fire risk to your own safety. They will investigate and will force the HA to do something to protect your own life as currently with the way you describe it, your safety whilst living in your home is certainly at risk.

Whilst I feel sorry for your neighbour and her difficulties, her actions are putting your life in danger and that is what all the professionals must focus on.

I would make a formal complaint to the HA listing all the issues and that your health and safety is at risk from your neighbour and ask them to investigate and respond to you detailing what they have done to ensure you are safe to continue living in your home. If you are not satisfied with their response you can tke your complaint to the Housing Ombudsman.

I would also contact your local councillor and MP for their support.

Good luck

I probably won’t reply again, OP I do not want to derail your thread, and, have nothing more I can realistically add.

I hope this can be resolved for both of you. Take care.

I wonder if she is already known to services for this issue (which it might be rather than the actual disorder) simply because of the way you have said some things in previous posts.

Yes landlords do open windows. I live opposite a flat with severe mould (which the landlord bleaches between tenants) and a very heavy drug user (to the extent their use makes me ill). Who frequently threatens people with weapons and the police and services do nothing. He gets arrested and sent back hours later.

Please do not think I’m dismissing you in all of this. I simply wish to offer another perspective is all.

My flat was cleared without my consent, as was my friend who died. It is illegal but they justified it by saying it was so dangerous. Whilst they did get slammed by the coroner they still do this.

Do you own the property or rent?

If you rent put in a complaint with your landlord and also the building freeholder

No. Hoarding disorder means I’m barred from such accommodation.
Am facing street homelessness again as it’s classed here as a “choice” rather than “illness”. Which is, sadly, very common in the UK

Respectfully you misunderstand. It is not expensive. In proven to be to do with memories not buying for no reason, trauma and studies have proven most hoarders are in poverty, another risk factor. People with hoarding disorder hoard everything not just random things (hence bags of rubbish you mention to that person won’t be). Covid-19 restrictions caused a huge surge in hoarding disorder in the UK.

Yes it affects others but calling someone selfish, which you have not, but others “professionals” feel this is the way to go, for example “everyone’s going to die” which compounds it. When I first came to MN I made a post about being trapped by my neighbours pushchair which she refused to fold down and expected me to climb over and ran an (illegal) childcare business, I posted to understand as everyone told me I was being unfair to her, to my surprise people offered me suggestions to sort it - unfortunately I remained trapped but MN at least understood. No one in real life did a thing.

I wish I had the words to explain this disability (one of many).

Where I live there is a ban on hoarders in supported accommodation, also it’s extremely expensive (£400 a week, housing benefit is £400 a month). Its classed as a choice to put others in danger. I know of two homeless people who are homeless because of this disorder.

I think you should have called the police earlier so I'd do that now and keep doing it, don't tell them the story about environmental health etc., just say you are worried today, could they do a welfare check. What do the other neighbours say?

Here's the charities that might help:

https://hoardinguk.org
https://hoardingdisordersuk.org
https://ocdaction.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/hoarding-swlstg.pdf

Not sure if last one will load but anyway, to be honest it's not your job to educate yourself about hoarding or offer to help this person, I'd keep trying to engage agencies to help them. The links are just for interest. I'd say very well done for all you've tried to do so far.

Environmental Health have been good and seem to be doing as much as they can. However, the HA refuses to share information with them too and without being able to see inside her property they can’t do much.

This is rubbish. They are required to do something. If they can't access the property normally they can apply for a court ordered warrant which will give them the legal right to enter the premises using force (to the property) if necessary. Not sure if I have worded that correctly but it's close!

Don't let them fob you off.

The difficulty all to often is that various agencies have powers to take action, sometimes on the spot.

The difficulty is getting them to do it, these days usually for budgetary reasons.

I am surprised that the building owner hasnt kicked off to be honest

Are there only two flats in the building? If not, surely other tenants are equally affected and maybe you should get together as a group. You must have visitors too, how awful for everyone really.

Otherwise, it's time to get out asap. I realise this is an expensive option for you, but honestly I'd get a loan. There is nothing that would keep me in a place smelling of sewage with excrement on the walls of the common areas. Getting things sorted could take months. Are you prepared to wait it out like that?

She definitely needs a MASH/safeguarding referral as there are multiple concerns regarding fire safety, rodents, sanitary issues. People can choose to live in squalor but they need to assess her and make sure she’s not like this due to illness, poverty, learning difficulties etc.

If you know her name and date of birth it would be worth ringing your local mental health single point of access (SPA) and tell them you are significantly concerned about her safety and wellbeing. If she is known to services and/or has a diagnosis they may be able to arrange a home visit to assess whether she is having an acute mental health crisis.

If things are escalating and you witness her behaving erratically then absolutely call the police - they can do a section 136 and get an urgent mental health assessment done.

You need to move on. This could take years to resolve.

Give notice. Write to the housing association. Live with a friend / family til you get your deposit back and find a new place.

Your question asked Should I call the police? The answer is Yes. There is a person in distress, needing urgently help.
Who know what they will do if they are smearing faeces? I don’t understand why you’ve not asked the Police to conduct a wellness check…?

It has gone beyond an environmental concern to a mental health concern, in my opinion.

Id be adding a line in your e mail to your landlord about how they were aware of this situation when you viewed the property but they deliberately tried to hide/mitigate it with the windows open.

Smeared shit on the walls? She should be prosecuted for that 🤢 foul.

I really feel for you, I don't know how you're still there. It sounds like she needs sectioning. Could the police not get involved now she is smearing shit on communal areas? Surely that's ground for someone to be sectioned?

You have my total sympathies OP.
It may well be a recognised condition but when it impacts on others like this it’s simply not fair.
Wishing you all the best in getting things sorted.

If the hoarder does not want help, they wont be able to access the property, or move them on.

I have a hoarder relative, who has no hot water, no electricity, house stacked from top to bottom and outside, and other health issues, all Adult Services did was knock on the door and talk to them.

I'm not knocking Adult Services at all, but they dont have the power

It sounds like she has been without support for quite some time.

No NT, mentally well person smears poo, and it doesn't sound like she's going to get the help she needs from the services provided so you should assume this behaviour will continue.

You would be doing yourself a huge favour to find alternative accomodation. This will only escalate the more services try to intervene.

It is hard when an adult is deemed to have capacity, and so is able to make hazardous environmental and health related choices that impact not only them but others, and hard to assess for capacity if that person is unwilling to engage, and so capacity is assumed.

There's clearly something more going on with this person and your primary responsibility should be with yourself and making sure you are safe and away from this.

Do you know if she has/had any pets in there? I sadly knew a hoarder who would not discard of his deceased pets bodies and said he wanted to keep them so he could be buried with them when he died. The police were contacted and did step in although I dare say there wasn't really a marked improvement, and we didn't stay long.

The HA are being negligent, surely. I understand it’s difficult to enter people’s homes without their consent, etc but the my need to keep her safe.
If she’s been doing this for 15years and they haven’t accessed her property, they’re very likely to be in breach of ensuring her home is up to the current fire safety standards, etc.
A poor hoarder died recently because of these same issues. He died very quickly in a fire as he couldn’t get out and his hole wasn’t up to the latest fire safety standards