To be frustrated that people don't understand that individualism is not compatible with a collectivist mindset?

What’s the difference between Democracy and mob rule?

DB said he’d obviously vote for the person who’d benefit him.
I would vote for the person who’d benefit the most vulnerable, because any of us or our loved ones can become the most vulnerable.

Democracy only works if you can convince people they need to consider other people. It’s not working well at the moment.

Possibly it’s a logical progression and comes from a subsection of societyrealising that they were paying a lot more into the “village” than they were getting out through unpaid labour. There’s a good book called “The Tyraanny of Participation” which looks at community dynamics from a development perspective and it’s definitely not a group of individuals working equally to a common goal and splitting the benefits.

The old "rights without responsibilities" moan. I guess it depends exactly what you're talking about.

There's certainly a small amount of downright lazy, selfish behaviour going on (from parking on double yellows up to benefit fraud).

There's a lot more "bare minimum" behaviour (large parts of society are propped up by a small number of volunteers/charitees - food banks, play groups, PTAs, youth groups, seniors groups). Often this is because people have literally nothing left in the tank at various points in their life

And then there's people who are increasingly refusing to make themselves ill for the benefit of their employer. Expectations of working days have definitely shifted in most sectors, and I think this is perfectly reasonable. Why should an individual worker go above and beyond to line someone else's pockets?

They were talking on R4 the other day about Biden's warning about the US moving towards an oligarchy. Seemingly this phase of a few individuals becoming incredibly wealthy and powerful in a fairly short space of time is very often followed by revolution....

This is interesting, but can you explain what you mean?

Otherwise we can just think of the worst bits of individualism and the best of collectivism, or vice versa, and we won't really get very far.

For example, if we could scrap the human rights act (individualist) to get greater GDP or faster scientific progress (often a goal of collectivist systems historically), should we?

Depends on your neighbours. One side yes the other not so much.
Seriously though more and more people are putting themselves first, just look at litter, dog poo,parking. Just everyday annoyances like these.

It starts with the breakdown of family. People can't even prioritise their own family anymore let alone form bonds with a community.
It's also hard when in many places, communities are mixed and pitted against each other via media and social media.
I remember hearing an interesting survey once. (Recalling from memory so figures might not be accurate)
People were asked if they had a choice of winning £1 million for themselves or £5 million but their neighbour also won £5 million, which one would you chose?
Most people went for the £1 million

I agree, I think people are happier when they feel part of a community...e.g. people moving out to a village to be part of a community, or joining a church, or people suggesting volunteering for people who are feeling lonely.

I also don't like how everything seems like a competition sometimes...e.g. sometime the talk about education is very much 'is it worth it financially/you'll be competing for jobs'

Interesting debate.
I do think individualism has a lot to answer for regarding not just morals, lack of community and behaviour, but physical and mental health.
I've always found research on 'blue zones' to be interesting, small pockets where people are living longer and better. Community is a big aspect for each of those zones - impacts everything.

Any mass restructing of society is usually violent. I'd be in favour of gradual change, not revolution, and there always needs to be a balance between the individual and collectivism. Also society is not just about the collective v the individual, there are also lots of family and other groups.

And I don't think there has been an increase in individualism in the last 30 years. The last 300, perhaps.

What also compounds the issue OP is that groups of people who are supporting individualism forcibly change the meanings of words to suit themselves.

I guess it depends on your definition of individualism!

why can’t we have both?

I am just reading it now @user09678.

I have not thought in those terms before. It appeals to me.

I will do some reading!

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that

The nature of dictatorship ensures that it's never benign. Democracy is really just a dictatorship of the majority, and it's as benign as it gets, certainly compared to the alternatives.

It's the same with community trust though. We've been turned against each other rather than holding big businesses, oligarchs and billionaires responsible for hoarding money and not putting any back into the community. Turning on people who earn up to £150k on here is really common, when in reality there are plenty of people with far far more who pay less in taxes pulling all of the strings. Mass media loves to spread fear and divide the communities we used to rely on, so we buy more and trust each other less. Life becomes one big competition, yet we are constantly told not to compare ourselves to others. No wonder we have so much bad mental health.

And as a result of individualism and the breakdown of a sense of community, relationships are less stable and mental health issues in society are massively increased