To think London is in a major decline?

@trivialMorning - yes, it's an illusion. Paris has its bourgeois centre and now too London.

All the riots shall be outside the ring roads as a consequence

I lived in London for years, still visit but atleast London is still cosmopolitan, lots of different people from everywhere . I now live in a big city... it's in societal decay inhabited by people that won't assimilate and literally is a 3rd world and not too dramatic to say civilisation I it's truest sense is declining. Just One example , for instance, people on buses blaring their phones, no consideration for others.

It hasn't change much since I live there in the late 80s early 90s. I remember the dealers having the drugs attached to collars of their pit bull terriers.

yep.

masses of hmos with 7 people in a 2 bed tend to ruin the area let alone the lack of roots means there no engagement or buy in with the community.

But the difference now is the volume of people, and scruffiness has moved from the centre of town to the suburbs. London poverty is now in the outer zones. Much more Parisian.

That would explain why when we visit it seems nice.

TBH since I had my youngest and coalition government came in with their sweeping cuts it felt every where been in decline. The only exceptions to that feeling in recent years where when we went to Liverpool and Leicester but again we're seeing city centers.

When we moved here about a decade ago - it was on an up which was better than where we came from - but few years later it's much worse. It just the decline varies in intensity and amount - gives an overall glum impression of UK.

What I notice is the acceptance rate of things that wouldn’t have been so tolerated previously. We have begging gangs with individuals in about 8 locations in our shopping centre and also people setting up rough sleeping beds which are left there all day inside bus stop shelters, outside Mac Donald’s etc. it makes our really nice shopping centre in Kingston feel sort of run down.

Crime in London has changed. I remember seeing the transition from old English gangsters to a newer, more vicious culture from Eastern European criminal gangs who occupied sex trafficking and the drugs business.

The English gangsters moved into property development and sold their knocking shops for millions: and so a new criminal class emerged, one not related to a native community. Foreign criminality does make a big difference to offending.

I live in Hampshire and when I go to London, it’s via Richmond and then train or the district line. London has been dirty and a bit run down for at least 20 years. I don’t feel unsafe though. I think it’s because it’s Richmond (or Kensington or Covent Garden’s).

This is the same in Hampshire. Compare Southampton with Winchester. The market towns are mostly all lovely. There are nice and rough spots in the county.

No youth centres, schools cut back to the bare bones so poor educational opportunities, drugs easily available everywhere, social media glamorising the gangster lifestyle. That's why.

I think London is definitely better than in the 80s but I do think that some areas are beginning to feel a bit more unsafe or are at least no longer getting as secure as before. For example, yes Brixton is now more 'white' but I also think that despite its new M&S, deprivation is certainly still there and things arent getting better. We live in Herne Hill and whilst it's certainly 'safer' than before, low level crime is constant, kids are constantly mugged for their phones etc. Shops have closed, Lordship lane is full of empty units. Despite gentrification - there is still a huge difference between SW London and even the poshest bits of SELondon - and I dont think the gap is closing anymore.

Gentrification has its down sides, it makes things very sterile & often homogenous. Plus just because you now have more white people, a Gail’s & your house costs twice as much it doesn’t mean all the crime has disappeared. I’m constantly shocked by how many people aren’t aware of their surroundings.

I find the decline is even worse outside London in smaller towns and cities. There are still lots of positives i like about London. It's a very accepting and vibrant cosmopolitan city. We love the English countryside for holidays, visiting friends up North etc, but have to live here because our families and work industries are here.

I don't think Zone 1-3 are very liveable but great for work and entertainment. It's very transient, young and affluent (so the inner city contrast vs the have-nots is very stark). Zone 4-6 generally safe and stable. I like where we are. Public transport is terrible though where i am zone 5 - so much room for improvement.

I think public transport and road infrastructure is key to solving the housing and cost of living crisises. london transport is better than other places but i feel UK is overly conservative, under ambitious and backwards in urban and town planning.

That said 100% i want to move out of London once kids are independent.

London is in major decline and it really is the result of Mayor Khan, Ken Livingstone was very good for London (bringing in the Olympics, Crossrail etc), so it's not a party political thing.

Being a commuter into London, Covid hit very heavily, and Khan did everything he could to tell people not to visit London (he even looked at tripling my fares to get into London). Then when Covid ended he thought "London is Open" would magically bring everyone back.

There needs to be a zero-tolerance on low-level stuff, like the beggers and general cannabis use in the streets. Ban those rikshaws and the American candy/HP stores. This is the same as the broken windows policy in NY.

not those kids but their parents are, and can’t be bothered parenting anymore

I live on the edge of Surbiton and haven’t noticed anything like that at all! Sounds horrendous! What general area are you in?

I think the decline is everywhere too. We've got massive problems with homelessness, antisocial behaviour and littering in my town, too. I can't be arsed to get into a long political debate but 14 years of the Tories does that to a country.

If you think London is bad, then you need to get out more. Maybe look at some of the Northern towns and cities that are basically nothing but drugs, money laundering, litter, low level crimes, traffic offences, anti social behaviour, etc. London is wonderful compared with some of the hell holes out in the regions.

This is a very interesting theory but I don’t believe these explain the issues OP has mentioned - for example, why are so many young school kids stabbing each other? Surely they’re not “fed up and can’t be bothered anymore”, nor stewing on the cost of living crisis…

Yes I believe it makes one more tolerant - as long as bodies are buried..... and think of Gaza too!

Lockdown broke the unspoken codes and barriers. People realised that there is no downside to doing whatever you want, and huge upside to ignoring rules.

You might notice it more in London because there's a high density of people giving zero fucks about anyone but themselves.

I grew up in London and it's always been like that. I remember coming back from two weeks abroad in 2011 and crying at the sight of all the litter, so I soon left after that. There's still a lot going on in London though so the draw is always there.

Last time I was in London was last year and I was shocked at how grubby London was esp the area around the statue of Eros .

Name changed (ironically) because I might get flamed for this...

Personally, I lay the blame for this with Reagan, Thatcher, the odious Ayn Rand and all their acolytes: the rich, the powerful and the idiots who believe the rich & powerful are on their side. Decades of screaming that the rights and wishes of the individual are much more important than those of the community/state has inevitably resulted in a culture of unbridled selfishness (the greatest virtue according to Rand) and the insane prevalence of main character syndrome. Of course people let their dog shit everywhere, because it's their dog in their world, where other people are insignificant extras. Of course people play their videos/music as loud as they like, because they want to listen to it and what anyone else wants is something entirely beneath consideration. Of course public services close because people who use them aren't willing to pay anything towards them if they have any way of avoiding it, because taxes support services for people who aren't them or their immediate family & friends and therefore shouldn't exist.

The (industrialised) world is a sewer. Society is going to break down completely some time in the not-too-distant future because so many people don't consider themselves to be part of it and are too stupid to realise they can't survive without it. I had hoped this would be far enough in the future that my children wouldn't be caught up in it, but I very much fear that was a vain hope.

I think if you take the long term view London has improved massively; it’s much more affluent and major investment has gone into removing pockets of deprivation although the polarization between rich and poor has increased.

The City is having an existential crisis at the moment though: partly Brexit related and partly to do with the pension fund mess. I am concerned about the impact that will have on London long term and I think a lot of people outside the City don’t understand how bad it is.

Its easy to sneer at bankers and fat cats but it’s a major economic hub.

Oh someone mentioned the kids being mugged!! Friends teenage rugby kids robbed broad daylight Putney East Station (I think its East, then you turn left towards Wandsworth there's a waitrose and another station) youths with knives after school hours! These were huge lads. It's constant.
When youth ask me the time I tell them to not try me and my phone is old and shit and to move along 😂
Come to think of it if I could live in Richhmond or Kew I'd probs be happier but those prices are insane near the town centre.

Or there were a set of robberies in Clapham Junction area, a road that was really nice with cute cafes etc, beginning with B? Women were getting robbed, their jewellery mainly taken. Where the bus road is, going to opposite way away from Clapham Junction Station.

I know some neighbours of mine in the bougie 5m+ houses are worried about being robbed all the time.

Lived in Shepherds Bush and then Ealing in my 20's. Went back to Ealing recently (30+ years later) and thought it had gone hugely downhill. Went out towards Wembley and had to get off at some random tube station as they weren't running past there and it was really horrible, felt unsafe with druggies and alcoholics. Transport was shite because they had closed parts of lines. Mind you I always thought London was great to visit but a dump to live in and couldn't wait to leave. I think it's one of those places you can only consider 'normal' if you grew up there. Never held any appeal to me at all beyond there being lots of work.