To not think the UK is as bad as everyone makes out?

I agree we shouldn't use Afghanistan as a benchmark. However, there are others on this thread talking about other European countries and the US/Australia and saying things like "The UK is so dirty compared to other countries. There's dog shit everywhere. There are no opportunities in the UK". I think these people probably don't have much knowledge about life in other countries.
Many of the countries the UK is being compared with are dirtier than the UK, have fewer opportunities than the UK, have a poor standard of living - but people just don't see it. They're assuming the UK is far worse than comparable countries. It's not true. I say this as someone who's lived in three other European countries and have in-laws in another EU country and in Asia, so I feel I can compare.

If you kerp afghanistan as benchmark, you may soon be in something similar.

And it's offensive actually. Do you still say "eat your food, kids in africa are starving"? "don't moan, women in Afghanistan have it worse" is the same imho

That's a very low bar though. Comparing it to Afghanistan and Iran and being happy that at least your daughter gets an education and there is maternity pay etc is the very, very bare minimum. You should compare the standard of living in the UK with countries that has similar wealth and values.

I spent the New Year with an Australian friend who lives in Sydney. Her job sounded really tough (she works long hours) and she was complaining about how expensive Sydney is now. She is looking to retire outside of Sydney. I think all English-speaking and European countries are facing similar issues.

I think we must take things into perspective.

I wouldn't like to live in the USA with its own set of social problems except with gun violence and the cost of healthcare on top. And the nutters electing other nutters to the Presidential Office. Mr Boring in Number 10 is the total opposite.

At least I'm not in Afghanistan, or the UAE or Iran where women's access to their human rights are denied.

At least my daughter can go to school, and not have to pay for it.

At least I get employment benefits, such as redundancy pay, maternity pay, bank holidays, and holidays pay.

Although not perfect, I breathe better air than in some countries, and drink cleaner water than in others.

I could go on but to be honest I think I've made my point.

@JarvisIsland id say the opposite with work, mine has become so much more flexible! My role used to be 9-5.30 office based. Now it’s flexi hours (aka work any hours I like between 7-7), and hybrid/wfh. Lots of places have introduced flexi time, hybrid working etc, something that hardly existed 15 years ago!

Yes they do! I’m on a fb group with people from US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Northern Europe, and everyone complains (a lot!!) about where they live! It isn’t just us

I'm not disputing all your points, just some of them because I believe them to be untrue. I don't think 9-5 has become 8.30 - 6.00 for many people unless you have quite a high powered, well paid job. I work 9 to 4pm and my friends work similar hours or 9-5.

As for saying nowhere has bins - seriously?? Yes, they don't have them in stations. This has been the case since I was a child in the 80s and we had the threat of the IRA. However, our streets are full of bins! If I walk down my short suburban street there are two bins. If I go to the city centre there are bins everywhere. It's clean where I live. I don't see rubbish on the floor.

It's standard on here to trash the Uk and act like mainland Europe is some kind of oasis where nothing negative even happens. I saw someone on here try and say they don't get depressed in other European countries. Like what???

Brexit is blamed for absolutely everything constantly even stuff that was obviously caused by Covid and war in Russia/Ukraine.

People go on holiday to the most expensive parts of France then come back and make threads about how EVERYTHING is better there even the kids are apparently better (there's a thread on this every couple of months)

If you really wanted to move to the US or Scandinavian countries it is perfectly possible to do so - I know plenty who have done it. I don't know about Japan.

I think it is very easy to say "Oh things are so much better elsewhere, if only I could move there" rather than working out how to make the move and then contending with the realities of living in those countries.

Have you had to wait nearly two years for a NHS opp - or be told by your NHS doctor if you can pay you should consider it to be seen quicker. Have you ever had to phone for an ambulance for someone - how many hours did you wait? How many hours did they wait? Are your libraries, sports centres etc open or just manned by volunteers? Is your High Street buyoant or is it run down - but still extortionate to park? Have you taken a train recently - the ticket prices confuse even the staff? Have you seen the recent flooding causing places that have never flooded before to flood because local authorities have not been maintaining/cleaning drains and rivers have not been dreged. Have you been a victim of crime?

England is in a terrible terrible state and has been for a while. 20 years ago the above were not issues - and yet I pay so much tax.

I do think the weather makes a massive difference. Not temperature, but weather. Last week it was freezing, but it was generally sunny, you could go out for a walk wrapped up in suitable clothing and it was nice. Today it's damp so going for the same walk (and yes I do have suitable outdoor wear) means either changing shoes in the office or tramping wet mud around in my boots. My coat is damp and I've got to try and get it dry to go out at lunch. Whilst this kind of goes with the territory in January to some degree, it was the same in August, September this year when it should reliably be shorts and trainers for a day out.

I also think time is more under pressure now. The 9-5 is now the 8.30-6, plus the commutes as our overcrowded roads and public transport networks bulge because people don't live and work locally, and we are dependent on the car for the smallest journey like to the local shop, which people will say is due to safety but in reality is due to a) the above pressure on time and then b) laziness. Overcrowding doesn't help, and yes we are overcrowded in many areas. We need to stop population growth here rather than just building more and more houses without associated infrastructure. Contentious but we also need to stop keeping people alive at all costs. I watched my nan be 'kept alive' (this is different to living) and she was either distressed or had no idea what was going on for about 4 years, on such a concoction of drugs, I'm sure the stress was what contributed to my own mother's heart attack because she was so heavily leant on for personal care and all the admin whilst still trying to work full time in her early 60s. We do seem to have a very 'frail' elderly population compared to the areas in Europe I have friends/family enough to spend reasonable amount of time there (as opposed to only visiting on a city break weekend)

I also think the country is really dirty. Nowhere has bins any more in case someone sets them on fire or hides a bomb in them. How fucking depressing is that! No it doesn't excuse littering, but we were stopped at a regional swiss rail station the other week and there were proper bins inc recycling every 20m or so down the platform. In Paris in the spring, in the run up to the Olympics, on a random street alongside a road (not a main tourist centre area either) I could see, in line of sight, more bins than I walk past on my usually 5k dog walk loop round mostly new-ish build housing estates at home.

I know people in the most 'local' EU Countries have similar moans about their countries, and I think that living standards are just dropping off a cliff across all of the west, so stuff is compared to how stuff used to be.

@Mauro711

I agree that there are areas of the UK that is absolutely stunning but that matters less if the country isn't functioning. If young people can't afford to move out, if elderly people who fall and break a hip has to wait 14 hours for an ambulance, if a young child with a chest infection can't get in to see the GP, if a young middle earning family can't afford to have a second child because of the childcare costs and so on then there is very little consolation looking a pretty green hills and quaint stone cottages. I think that's the difference between the UK (at least England) now and the majority of european countries on a similar wealth level.

This 💯

I spent some time in Australia back in the 1980s and early 2000's

whilst the English like to moan I found the Aussies were gold medal standards where as English were a mere bronze

I came back to England with relief 😂

I think it depends on where you are and your experiences. We live in the country, in an early 18th C cottage on a country estate. It's beautiful- it's a tiny hamlet, the people are lovely and the place is gorgeous. Our rent is cheap and we have good lives. We aren't flush for money but manage what we have and I wouldn't change a thing. This was my dog walk this morning!

I’m thinking of moving to Australia. And when Aussies ask me why, I’ll tell ‘em that I’m fed up with listening to whinging Poms…

I'm so grateful for what I have. Life did a 180 in a way I hadn't expected and I had state support here I wouldn't get elsewhere.

I think the state of things is really concerning and on the decline though and that's what people are upset about.

As a regular hospital user, it's a terrifying place. I've experienced alot first hand in the hospital and waiting for ambulances ( drove myself which was dangerous one time, vomiting as I drove because no ambulance was coming).

The housing situation is diabolical and worsening. I see people working hard but screwed over in a messed up private rental sector. The justice system is beyond questionable. Education is really failing down the toilet, we have a SEN crisis that I have no doubt is impacting all kids in school. Social care is non existent and down the toilet. We have a sense of unrest that I feel even out here in my quiet rural town.

It could be a million times worse, it could be Afghanistan.

But yes people like a moan. I don't know if Brits moan more or less than anyone else though

Agree. Certainly with regard to Europe anyway. Conversations with friends in Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany (I've moved around a lot😂) all have the same tone and the same criticisms of their countries and governments as the UK tbh. And it's been that way for years too. But people here in the UK don't seem to think that is the case, unless they have direct contact with normal people living in these countries. I've got friends and family in Australia and USA, but they're in more of a 'living the dream' lifestyle atm so maybe not a true representation of more normal people living in those places. Of all the places I've lived I'd say Singapore would be the one I'd probably want to choose to grow old in - but you need a hell of a lot of money to do that, so not viable really. The UK is a good balance overall, though I agree it does feel less good than 25 years ago, but maybe every generation thinks the same, albeit for different reasons.

I think most people don't know what being an ordinary citizen is like in other countries away from the capital and tourist spots in the summer.

Is mid january really much different in say inland brittainy in France, France has very similar problems, food proportionally and in relation to wages is much cheaper in UK than most of the world. The gilet jaunes are still protesting; Paris is very expensive and some of the suburbs are terrible Marie le Pen is popular for a reason the political elite in France like in many other countries simply do not understand or care about the working poor
Barcelona has the same problem as London too many properties owned and not lived in by Foreign nationals; turning homes into airbnb or simply living vacant as a propety speculation investment
Youth unemployment is a much bigger problem in many countries in Europe,
childcare is higher in UK than most of Europe but broadband clothes etc are cheaper
The grass is generally not greener as a holiday view of a place is not the reality

Scandinavia is often thought of as better but there are big problems in some places there too and there is a general expectation that you need to assimulate quickly and do things their way, they are definitely less diverse

While the UK, France Germany Spain etc are all generally very safe places in all of these countries there are pockets where it is not, bad estates, sink schools etc, there is no Utopia

And thank god we don't have the tornadoes etc seen in the states.

I agree. I sometimes wonder how long Australia will actually be a habitable country.

Just said something similar. This has happened through history. Countries rise and fall. The west has passed its peak and is now in natural decline. The next superpowers will probably be China and India.

I used to think that about the weather, but with climate change I think we are lucky with out weather (although I live in the SE so perhaps it is easier for me to say).

My DH comes from another European country - one constantly cited as ‘the happiest’. Honestly they moan just as much as us. About immigration, house/rental prices, COL, litter, traffic, anti social behaviour, benefits, utility prices, pension age. And they’ve had a massive swing towards right wing parties. My cousin-in-law there has just had cancer treatment and has had to put in a complaint - and they have to pay ‘insurance’ up to a limit - no free treatment for everyone.

The difference is that they’re not afraid to be patriotic too and they celebrate the good. So they can say all of that but still love their country and recognise the huge benefits they have. We seem to lose sight of the positives.

I would say that Europe and the West generally feel in decline and we need to realise we’re not alone in that.

It could be a lot worse, but things have definitely changed in a bad way the last decade or so.

High streets are often abandoned, closed shops everywhere and in a state of decline and decay

Anti social behaviour huge increases.

Shoplifting is now rife

We now have GB news pumping their brand of divisive, one sided rhetoric that many consume and think is normal. I’m all for differing viewpoints etc but the way they do it is deliberately designed to divide and inflame rather than just report.

Crumbling underfunded nhs/schools

Drug use commonplace esp cocaine- it’s everywhere now, spice too in certain areas.

The roads are full of potholes, the waterways full of sewage.

None of these were such a huge problem 15-20 years ago like they are now.