To say that having a pet is a luxury, not a right?

I know badgers aren't that rare, but I have only seen two, so they are rare to me. Lucky you seeing lots.

I am not like you. I am vegan.
I do think pet ownership is cruel, yes.

Our cat , who is 12 this year has a vet's " lifetime care " package . For about £15 a month we get flea / working treatment plus 10% off an appointment and their yearly boosters.
Her food is subscription from Katkin at £62 a month , plus treats , litter , dry biscuits & any extras like brushes , toys ect and pet insurance.

She had a vet's appointment yesterday and had to have a long acting antibiotic injection at £62 .
So this month is likely to cost us £181 which is scary when you add it all up .

I realise that she could be fed cheaper but she gets on well with it and has little waste , whereas before we'd throw out quite a lot when she had the small tins / pouches.

I just looked up the average cost of a cat in the uk and it says £1500 a year which is £125 a month so still a considered amount .

Oh so you're like me? I haven't eaten any meat for over 45 years! Since long before it was fashionable to be meat free.

I do have pets so I suppose I'm very cruel, lording it over them and playing god but still, the local corvids benefit by getting the leftover pet food. We certainly have plenty of wildlife visiting. Badgers aren't that rare by the way, we see loads of them here but maybe it depends where you live.

I used to support the slaughter industry, until I knew better, once I was an adult. This was a long time ago, before it became hip.

Have you always been a vegan or did you used to support the slaughter industry yourself?

It's not largely made from byproducts, and even if it is, you are still supporting the slaughter industry.

Yes I am vegan. Nature is fine by me. Humans lording it over other animals, playing god, is not.

Except of course that pet food is largely made from by products and waste from meat products intended for human consumption. So the animals are actually being killed for people not for other animals.

Are you vegan? And if so, how do you feel about your lovely birds, deer, foxes, badgers and hedgehogs eating dead stuff that they kill? Isn't that keeping one animal alive resulting in the deaths of numerous others?

Do your chosen pet/s eat other animals? Are you keeping one pet alive, resulting in the deaths of numerous others? Are you vegan? If not, then you don't think "every life is as important as each".

@ISaidOopsUpsideYourHead
I genuinely wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for my pets. Certainly pre children they were the reason I didn’t kill myself. Because I had responsibilities.

for what it’s worth, not that this counts in any argument. I do believe every life is as important as each, the bumble bees I’ve saved with sugar syrup, the crow I’ve scooped up off the road to safety or the family of mice I’ve relocated or the human I helped in sainsburys.

I think this is tricky. Our cats came as kittens from someone we know who isn't well known looking after their house or there cats. Our cats definitely have a better quality of life here. They are insured, have decent quality food, good quality litter, a big garden and they are vaccinated.
It's a possibility that someone else took a couple of the others, feeds them poorer quality food, plus doesn't insure or vaccinate but they are loved and have shettler. Are those cats better off than where they were (a bit of a shithole) or in in rescue centre? I think they probably are yes.

I budget my cats expenses into my budget. Yeah I could have an extra £300 a month (which would actually help some months) and not have them but I live on my own, some days they're my only company. I'd go without instead of giving them up (not one tells people to give up their children if they fall on hard times).

They're also my little family (one cat is currently missing and the torment and heartbreak of not knowing is something I've never experienced before). And no I don't need to put more effort into my relationships with the humans in my life I do that perfectly well. Animals love unconditonally (unless you're a cat in which case they can be absolute arsehole😂) humans come with catches.

Pets are expensive and time-consuming. Shouldn’t people prove they can afford and care for them before getting one?

I didn't say they were. I said I love seeing animals wild and free. Cats and dogs aren't a natural species, I don't think they belong in our ecosystem, and I would be more than happy for them to stop being bred and have them phased out.

We did choose to domesticate them, and we have chosen to breed them to fit our purposes.

I love seeing birds, deer, foxes, badgers (rare), hedgehogs etc. Humans interfere too much.

I didn't say they were. I said I love seeing animals wild and free. Cats and dogs aren't a natural species, I don't think they belong in our ecosystem, and I would be more than happy for them to stop being bred and have them phased out.

We did choose to domesticate them, and we have chosen to breed them to fit our purposes.

I love seeing birds, deer, foxes, badgers (rare), hedgehogs etc. Humans interfere too much.

I didn't say they were. I said I love seeing animals wild and free. Cats and dogs aren't a natural species, I don't think they belong in our ecosystem, and I would be more than happy for them to stop being bred and have them phased out.

We did choose to domesticate them, and we have chosen to breed them to fit our purposes.

I love seeing birds, deer, foxes, badgers (rare), hedgehogs etc. Humans interfere too much.

It is a luxury, and I think as a nation we should wean ourselves off the dependency on another species to fill voids or needs in our lives - I am convinced human relations would improve if people put the effort they put into their animals into other humans instead.

I think great strides have been made in alternatives to guide dogs, and we should be pushing harder on that, and doing away with exploiting dogs for human need. Same for sniffer dogs.

People don't consider the impact of their pets on the planet either - how many other animals are killed to feed Fido or Tiddles, and how much waste there is due to pets.

I think the country would on the whole be better off without pets. People who say they rely on their pet would have to adjust.

Fantastic point by a pp about how we don't care about killing rats in horrible traps or with poison, but will pay £x for a hamster to be humanely euthed. Same goes for euthing dogs and cats and not giving a shit about the farmed animals in the slaughterhouses. We are a weird species to care about some animals but not all. People just don't think, or worse, don't care.

I love seeing animals in the wild, free, where they belong.

Exactly. And it’s the same for mortgages - you have to state your dependents and childcare costs which impacts affordability.

Cats and dogs don't belong "wild and free". They are fundamentally domesticated animals.

Humans didn't choose to domesticate them - it was not a concious process. Rather, these species exploited new ecological niches that were created by human settlements.

Part if this survival strategy is dogs and cats exploiting us by mimicking some behaviours of human infants, and thereby triggering parental care behaviours in humans.

I’ve said this before but just because we can doesn’t mean we should. Long, invasive, extensive treatment (regardless of budget) is not always in the animals best interest. An elderly dog having repeated chemo trips for 6 months might not be in its best interest. A elderly cat having bones repinned and having to stay in a cage for 8 weeks and repeated vet visits may not be in its best interest.

it should always be best interest for the animal

Sometimes euthanasia influenced by cost of treatment might be the right thing to do. Insurance doesn't cover all of it, and bills can add up quickly. It's not that black and white

I don't know about having to actually provide proof. In saying that, when we purchased a (quite expensive just above the £1000 mark) kitten last year the breeder did ask about our living circumstances, including occupation, as in the past she said people have euthanised cats as they've been unable to meet the cost of treatment.

I use a monthly veterinary plan, for which we receive free consultations (telephone and in person), free annual vaccination boosters, free flea and worm treatments, discounted neutering and free nurse appointments to have nails clipped or ears cleaned.
I also have pet insurance. Then there is food and litter costs.

I'm sure it must be possible to manage it more cheaply, and if circumstances change there is a large animal charity (possibly PDSA) offering, income based, free or reduced price veterinary care. I don't know how comprehensive that is in what they offer or will treat, however.