Do DH and I need power of attorney for each other?

We did it last year for my parents (and we left it bloody close as they were in their 70s and my mum just diagnosed with dementia). And you do need someone independent to agree the person is no longer capable of making their own decision/being in charge of their money.
I suggested MIL did it too, which she agreed to eventually.
DH and I haven't done it. We don't even have wills but I keep thinking we should. We're in our 40s so DH says theres no need but age isn't a guarantee.

I organised and applied for our PoAs myself. The website takes you through the process in detail and it is not difficult - you just have to be very methodical about the order in which things are signed. They are also very helpful on the phone when needed.

We had both types of PoA - Finance and Health/Welfare.

There is a fee, but the means-tested reductions in that are very generous as they only take into account income and not savings. We had a hefty reduction. Not using a solicitor (which is unnecessary) also save a large chunk of money.

My late OH and I named each other, and also 2 of our DDs. A friend countersigned for us - she was a doctor, as was my OH.

The moment when the PoA really came into its own was when my OH was acutely ill (on top of his existing neurodegeneration) and they wanted to cart him off to hospital for lots of invasive treatments in order to prolong his misery. I was able to override this and he died gently and peacefully over the next few days.

I would strongly recommend getting PoAs.

Ah... I'll have to look back and see if it was him.

Her boyfriend isn't eligible to have been her certificate provider. The POA may not be valid. As per the gov.uk website...

"Who cannot be the certificate provider?

• an unmarried partner, boyfriend or girlfriend of the donor or any of the attorneys"

A POA will only kick in when you can’t choose yourself. If you’re in a position to make your own decisions then your attorney doesn’t have any say and you’re the one that makes the choice.
POA for healthcare is only applicable when you no longer have capacity (usually due to lack of consciousness or severe psychiatric/neurological disorders).

Whoever you designate as a POA is more likely to have some idea what your wishes would be than a health/social care professional. Professionals will act in your best interest, and take your relatives views into account when making decisions but they obviously won’t have the background that helps them under what your preferences might be (especially if they’re contrary to medical advice).
Also, without a POA it can be very difficult to know which family members opinions best represent the views of the patient (sadly there cases where family members don’t agree what the best course of treatment is or occasionally there are complex dynamics which mean that some family members don’t have the patient’s best interests at heart). By making a POA you’re choosing who is best placed and most suitable to make these decisions in the event that you can’t.

You can include your wishes/instructions as part of the POA (which has a legal effect) or just have a chat with whoever you’ve designated about what your broad preferences would be (e.g. carers at home vs care home, whether you want vaccinations, or when you’d want to stop treatment if you have a terminal condition).

'without PoA no-one else can step in and make her do anything'

I am 100% pro POA but in theory at least, this isn't exactly true - decisions can be made for someone who lacks mental capacity for that decision, they can be made in best interests by a team or a doctor etc. I agree though that it can be really difficult to get people to step up and make those decisions, leaving the carer with all the responsibility but zero ability to take action.

Ok so, I know someone who’s wife has dementia. PoA was never sought. Now, they are living in a nightmare because the husband cannot make Dr appointments, access money, and trying to get assessments is impossible because regardless of her losing capacity, without PoA no-one else can step in and make her do anything. They can offer them, but she can refuse them which is this persons case. She needs to be in a Care Home as she has become aggressive, and regularly escapes from home, but without PoA in place, no-one can make that decision for her. It is a terrible situation for the family.
The guardianship route you are referring to is a huge long drawn out affair that can take up to 2 years to obtain plus it is limited in what powers can be used.
PoA can be setup ready to go within 3-4 months while the person still has capacity.

LPAs aren't a magic bullet but they help.

My DM no longer has capacity but this has been a sharp decline over the space of a few months. LPAs are in place but as there has not been time for an assessment (successive health crises) she still had to agree to moving into a care home and signing the DD for the fees.

Having had to bear witness to DMs decline my takeaways are that DH and I will be putting LPAs in place in the next few weeks.

In addition I will be making an Advanced Directive which is that I do not wish to be given any treatment other than palliative unless I am able to give informed consent.

Some if this is about personality, I am always the first to leave a party. My view is that I would rather leave the party too soon than too late.

Re costs: You can DIY online, you can pay a solicitor (££) or there are services who will fill it all in (£) and then the person, attorneys, and witness need to sign it.
It costs £82 each to register them with the office of the public guardian.

It’s not just the initial application, there are ongoing annual fees unlike a poa.

IIRC my mum's boyfriend was her certificate provider. Much easier than getting her GP to do it. They mustn't be an employee and have to have known them for two years or more. The will isn't an issue, though he wasn't in her will either.

Yes, do it now. My mil didn’t do it as she always said there’s plenty of time and she’d “know” when the time was right. But then dementia set in and events overtook her - we knew she needed to get it in place as we could see the deterioration, but she couldn’t as she thought she was fine even though we had to help her with everything - she couldn’t remember we had to help her! We ended up having to go to court of protection for a court order as she ended up incapable of understanding what the poa application was about and couldn’t get anyone to sign that she understood what she was signing.

They can be whomever you want - when my MIL applied, she had my DH and his brother. They were both beneficiaries and executors of her will. The two documents - POA and Will - are not linked.

We have done ours and also included our DS. I don't want him having any of the worries we had with my in laws when they were elderly. We did this about 5 years ago (we are early 60s now). They are lodged with the solicitor and we can just forget about them until we need them.

My DM did hers about 10 years ago and so pleased she did. She now has what is probably dementia (she refused to have scans to confirm) but I had to register her POA with the bank last year as she gave all her bank details out over the phone to a scammer.

When my gran died suddenly we weren't able to cancel any of the utilities or phone line etc because they couldn't speak to her. Lots of ridiculous going round in circles conversations explaining that they couldn't speak to her because she was dead! She had the POA forms and they'd been submitted but the process hadn't had time to be completed as her illness progressed too quickly

POA and Deputyship ceases upon death. Also, all utility companies and banks have bereavement helplines that, in my experience, deal with things very well. In the example Ive quoted, the deceased hadn’t even complet Ed the POA process so its irrelevant.

No it doesn’t. I did this via a solicitor in 2023 and in total it was just short of £2k.

Using someone else’s logins for their bank account is actually fraud, so isnt a long term solution.
You might never need POA, most people dont. But if you haven’t got it when you need it life can become very difficult.
My DM was very capable at 85, her DH, my stepfather, not so much - he had dementia. Neither had POA. DM died very suddenly and unexpectedly whilst my SF was in hospital. I was left to sort everything out and whilst the health side of things wasn’t too difficult (social workers / NHS and care home staff communicated with me very well) the financial side was a nightmare. I eventually got Deputyship (like POA but much harder to get) after a year which enabled me to deal with his finances. As you can imagine they were in a complete mess by this point.
So, my advice is for both of you to do POA for finances and health and welfare - it’s about £80 for each one and can very easily be done online. You really don't need to pay a solicitor. I would recommend having more than 1 deputy - do you have adult children or a trusted relative/friend?

To be fair a POA lapses immediately on death so wouldn't have helped there.

Deputies are supervised. That’s the major point of difference here.

If you do not have LPAs in place and need to apply to the court to appoint a deputy, it takes a long time and costs about £10K as a solicitor needs to be involved.

You wanted specific examples.
When my gran died suddenly we weren't able to cancel any of the utilities or phone line etc because they couldn't speak to her. Lots of ridiculous going round in circles conversations explaining that they couldn't speak to her because she was dead! She had the POA forms and they'd been submitted but the process hadn't had time to be completed as her illness progressed too quickly.
As a carer I had a client whose family lived on literally the opposite side of the country. As a care company we were having to try and get SS to do what they needed to as it was clear to us she was not safe at home. Her dementia was awful for her, she wasn't eating or drinking enough, she went missing, she had delusions that made her terrified in her own home, she either didn't take her meds or overdosed on them on a daily basis. We were given one visit a day, increased to two when we fought for that on her behalf. I would regularly end up going there in my own time between other visits (with permission from the office) because I was so concerned about her. If her family had POA they could have made the decision on care needs and would have had us in for the maximum, they said as much!

A few things I've spent my mum's money on with her POA -

• moving her to a nursing home nearer family which is also much nicer
• a table that allows her to actually look at magazines and photos rather than have them out of reach abd invisible to her
• a fancy cup she can drink from independently rather than needing help for every sip

• clothes that fit, she's changed shape several times over 3 years

We have both kinds of POA with each other. DH also has it with his single brother and MIL. MIL strongly encouraged us to get them, because it was really useful for her when FIL had dementia.

Having volunteered at an advice charity I've seen how people's lives can change really suddenly with accidents, strokes, illness etc.

If you don’t get a POA and then lose capacity, it goes to the court of protection. As someone said “the OPG will appoint a deputy” but that process is painful, expensive and very stressful. They don’t just turn around and say “you’re his wife, you can do it” - you have to apply, fill in lots of forms, every inch of your character and finances are assessed and then it goes to the court for approval, and they may say no and appoint someone else.

POA is putting you in control of who manages decisions about your life whilst you’re still able to choose. As soon as you lose capacity you can no longer apply for a POA - it’s why it’s so important to set it up before you lose capacity.

I work in Banking so have seen many examples over the years of where it has gone right and where it’s gone wrong.

Also PLEASE don’t use each others logins for insurance, banking. Etc - it’s breaching the terms and conditions of your account and if your bank or whoever find out they are perfectly within their rights to close your accounts and exit you as a customer.