Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ayaan hirsi ali…first time I’ve heard of her

116 replies

Meetmeatthatspecialplace · 11/01/2025 21:07

Came across a video of her speaking last night
I find what she has to say about Islam very interesting, sensible and…worrying
Any thoughts?
I can’t seem to link 😬

OP posts:
CoalTit · 12/01/2025 00:27

I find what she has to say about Islam very interesting, sensible and…worrying
Any thoughts?
There's nothing here about what she said, which makes it hard to have any thoughts on it.
I read her autobiography, Infidel, which describes how she became an illegal immigrant and took advantage of the Netherlands asylum and welfare system, including unemployment benefits. Having made good use of the system herself, she doesn't want others to have access to it. She specifically says she doesn't want unemployment benefits for other immigrants
She is beautiful and elegant and clever and articulate and black, and she has first-hand experience of the worst of Somali culture and she is brave enough to talk about it. So she is a very useful tool for the worst of western warmongers, and of she makes a living as such.

Meetmeatthatspecialplace · 12/01/2025 00:20

TalkingintheDark · 12/01/2025 00:17

Why shouldn’t we talk about Ayaan Hirsi Ali? It’s interesting to see how many people want to shut down any discussion. Why is this black, Somalian (by birth, if not now), ex-Muslim woman not a voice worth listening to? Why are some people suggesting it’s bigoted to even think about what she’s saying?

She probably knows more about Islam than most of the people presenting her as some kind of “alt-right” mouthpiece here, seeing as she was born into a Muslim family, brought up Muslim, has lived in more than one Muslim majority country, and attended a Muslim school.

It’s quite striking how the voices of ex-Muslims never seem to be listened to by those who think of themselves as progressive.

If someone left a fundamentalist Christian sect that they’d been brought up in, with very similar attitudes and values to those in much of the Islamic world, I think you would listen to them and respect their achievement in leaving that sect and their family behind, the courage it took to do that. You might be interested in hearing their story, their experiences, and their criticisms of that sect. You would not have any investment in defending that sect, or its practices.

But if someone leaves Islam - something that’s arguably even harder, given the penalties for blasphemy and apostasy, the fatwas, the reality of being part of an ethnic minority if in the west - and they want to talk about the problems they found with their former religion/community, they’re just “alt-right”, and you can just dismiss them as “having an axe to grind”?

It’s bizzarre, this urge to present her as some kind of frothing racist Islamophobe. Why can’t you even listen to her, talk about her, explain exactly what it is about what she says that’s so awful? Because if you do think she’s so awful, you presumably base that on specific things she’s said, right? What exactly are those things? What are you scared will happen if her voice isn’t suitably suppressed?

Exactly this, also surprising women are automatically shutting it down

OP posts:
Hungryheart2025 · 12/01/2025 00:20

Printedword · 12/01/2025 00:04

Nasty right wing former partner of a contemporary of mine at Cambridge - Niall Ferguson

Edited - oh they are still together

Edited

Thanks for the insight as a Cambridge grad, you've raised the tone immensely.

Printedword · 12/01/2025 00:18

Completely fine to talk about an interesting character

TalkingintheDark · 12/01/2025 00:17

Why shouldn’t we talk about Ayaan Hirsi Ali? It’s interesting to see how many people want to shut down any discussion. Why is this black, Somalian (by birth, if not now), ex-Muslim woman not a voice worth listening to? Why are some people suggesting it’s bigoted to even think about what she’s saying?

She probably knows more about Islam than most of the people presenting her as some kind of “alt-right” mouthpiece here, seeing as she was born into a Muslim family, brought up Muslim, has lived in more than one Muslim majority country, and attended a Muslim school.

It’s quite striking how the voices of ex-Muslims never seem to be listened to by those who think of themselves as progressive.

If someone left a fundamentalist Christian sect that they’d been brought up in, with very similar attitudes and values to those in much of the Islamic world, I think you would listen to them and respect their achievement in leaving that sect and their family behind, the courage it took to do that. You might be interested in hearing their story, their experiences, and their criticisms of that sect. You would not have any investment in defending that sect, or its practices.

But if someone leaves Islam - something that’s arguably even harder, given the penalties for blasphemy and apostasy, the fatwas, the reality of being part of an ethnic minority if in the west - and they want to talk about the problems they found with their former religion/community, they’re just “alt-right”, and you can just dismiss them as “having an axe to grind”?

It’s bizzarre, this urge to present her as some kind of frothing racist Islamophobe. Why can’t you even listen to her, talk about her, explain exactly what it is about what she says that’s so awful? Because if you do think she’s so awful, you presumably base that on specific things she’s said, right? What exactly are those things? What are you scared will happen if her voice isn’t suitably suppressed?

Printedword · 12/01/2025 00:17

user243245346 · 12/01/2025 00:10

She has provided evidence of being threatened with forced marriage.

As Madeleine Albright said, there is a special place in hell for women who don't support other women.

Ok so are you saying we should support all the right wing views of someone because they have experienced something awful at some point. Surely we can empathise on one level without adopting politics of an individual that are not related to their previous experiences

TempestTost · 12/01/2025 00:15

user243245346 · 11/01/2025 23:52

She was born a Muslim in Somalia and escaped a forced marriage. She is not a convert

She had a sort of "conversion experience" as Muslim, in the sense that she went from being a child raised as Muslim to becoming very personally committed and believing very strongly in what she was taught. So she wasn't always lukewarm, she had a rather harsh road to disenchantment.

Meetmeatthatspecialplace · 12/01/2025 00:13

TempestTost · 12/01/2025 00:09

She thinks Islam is fundamentally incompatible with western values. I don't agree with all her ideas about this but I think she makes some logical points as well as having some personal insights from her experience that are very worth listening to.

I think her underlying worry is that western countries refuse to see the problems with political Islam due to ideological ideas attached to a certain kind of liberalism which she thinks is very naive, and that it will have detrimental effects on society if allowed to continue.

She was a member of the humanist/skeptic/new atheist group for a while, but fairly recently converted to Christianity - Catholicism iirc though I wouldn't swear to that.

She also writes really beautifully and is enjoyable to read in terms of her clarity of expression.

Explained in a much more eloquent way than I could..!

OP posts:
Printedword · 12/01/2025 00:13

user243245346 · 12/01/2025 00:11

She's married to him and they have two sons.

Er, I just said this

biscuitandcake · 12/01/2025 00:11

username299 · 11/01/2025 23:48

I don't doubt her experience, I doubt the veracity of what she says.

She's a darling of the far right because of her anti Muslim, anti immigrant stance. She talks about coming out of the ECHR to prevent Muslims from coming to the UK and believes the rioters were unjustly jailed.

She thinks Starmer is in league with Muslims and is colluding with them.

I agree,
The last three things you mention:

  • That we should come out of the ECHR to stop Muslims entering the UK
  • Rioters unjustly jailed
  • Starmer is in league with Muslims

Fall into what you could mostly call "opinion/speculation". I mean, she has absolutely no way of knowing whether or not Starmer is in league with Muslims. He is unlikely to have told her. So its not even a question of "veracity" really - she might truly believe it, but its meaningless. Whereas, the experiences she shared of FGM etc are likely to be true because she was literally there (and I have no reason to believe she is lying). So thats a perspective that is more interesting.

the dude your opinion GIF
user243245346 · 12/01/2025 00:11

Printedword · 12/01/2025 00:04

Nasty right wing former partner of a contemporary of mine at Cambridge - Niall Ferguson

Edited - oh they are still together

Edited

She's married to him and they have two sons.

user243245346 · 12/01/2025 00:10

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 11/01/2025 23:57

"Holland's most strident critic of Islam, the Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is today expected to announce she is quitting politics and moving to America, amid allegations that she lied to gain asylum..."
Apparently her claims about forced marriage etc are made up too.

She has provided evidence of being threatened with forced marriage.

As Madeleine Albright said, there is a special place in hell for women who don't support other women.

TempestTost · 12/01/2025 00:09

She thinks Islam is fundamentally incompatible with western values. I don't agree with all her ideas about this but I think she makes some logical points as well as having some personal insights from her experience that are very worth listening to.

I think her underlying worry is that western countries refuse to see the problems with political Islam due to ideological ideas attached to a certain kind of liberalism which she thinks is very naive, and that it will have detrimental effects on society if allowed to continue.

She was a member of the humanist/skeptic/new atheist group for a while, but fairly recently converted to Christianity - Catholicism iirc though I wouldn't swear to that.

She also writes really beautifully and is enjoyable to read in terms of her clarity of expression.

Printedword · 12/01/2025 00:04

Nasty right wing former partner of a contemporary of mine at Cambridge - Niall Ferguson

Edited - oh they are still together

Crinkle77 · 12/01/2025 00:00

SchoolDilemma17 · 11/01/2025 21:09

First time you have heard of her 😳

I haven't heard of her until now. I'm well educated, watch the news etc... I've never come across her. Judgemental much?

user243245346 · 12/01/2025 00:00

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 11/01/2025 23:44

Oh ffs not another faux innocent muslim bashing thread. I see you OP and not falling for it.
Ayaan had a shit childhood. I wish her healing, i really do, but she's got an axe to grind and is siding with racists in order to do it.

Wow - admiring a feminist advocate against forced marriage and fgm is "Muslim bashing" to some women. How ridiculous.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is incredibly brave. She has continued to fight for women's rights despite her life being in constant danger for years and people around her being murdered. I have huge admiration for her.

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 11/01/2025 23:57

"Holland's most strident critic of Islam, the Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is today expected to announce she is quitting politics and moving to America, amid allegations that she lied to gain asylum..."
Apparently her claims about forced marriage etc are made up too.

Meetmeatthatspecialplace · 11/01/2025 23:54

user243245346 · 11/01/2025 23:45

Shes great. Really brave outspoken woman. True feminist

Yes I think so too from what I’ve seen..so far at least

OP posts:
user243245346 · 11/01/2025 23:52

Neodymium · 11/01/2025 21:38

I’ve heard of her. She wrote a book that I read many years ago. She wrote about her experiences converting to Islam and then leaving. I believe she moved to Amsterdam as a refugee? It was a long time ago. Maybe became a politician too. Her book when I read it was interesting.

She was born a Muslim in Somalia and escaped a forced marriage. She is not a convert

user243245346 · 11/01/2025 23:49

PercyFone · 11/01/2025 21:28

She's been big in alt-right circles for years.

It's a shame you don't read the news much, but I'm glad you're interested now! it's so so important to understand the world we live in! I'm sure MNers would be happy to suggest reputable sources to start.

That's a bit patronizing. I wouldn't say a campaigner against forced marriage and female genital mutilation is "alt right".

Not everyone thinks the same thing. We don't need you to tell us what we can read and what we can't.

Meetmeatthatspecialplace · 11/01/2025 23:49

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 11/01/2025 23:44

Oh ffs not another faux innocent muslim bashing thread. I see you OP and not falling for it.
Ayaan had a shit childhood. I wish her healing, i really do, but she's got an axe to grind and is siding with racists in order to do it.

Not at all, should be able to discuss something without being called racist

OP posts:
username299 · 11/01/2025 23:48

biscuitandcake · 11/01/2025 23:41

She has been through a lot to be fair, I think if I had had her life experiences, I would be strongly against Islam too because most of the (very serious) bad things that have happened in her life have been as a result of Islamic extremism. The same way that people who have really been hounded by the worst of left wing progressivism tend to wind up strongly anti-"woke" and liable to lump all left wing/progressive ideas in together. And people who have suffered as a result of violence from the right (I don't agree with his views but Owen Jones absolutely has) tend to be very easily put of an argument if it seems at all "right wing". So I think its definitely worth listening to what she has to say- she isn't agitating for the sake of agitating/causing chaos. But hers shouldn't be the only viewpoint (in the same way that Owen Jones shouldn't. He comes across as hysterical when he talks about the danger to trans rights. But its because he experienced aggression for being gay so assumes its the same thing.)

We all see things through the filter of our experience is my point really.

I don't doubt her experience, I doubt the veracity of what she says.

She's a darling of the far right because of her anti Muslim, anti immigrant stance. She talks about coming out of the ECHR to prevent Muslims from coming to the UK and believes the rioters were unjustly jailed.

She thinks Starmer is in league with Muslims and is colluding with them.

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 11/01/2025 23:47

user243245346 · 11/01/2025 23:45

Shes great. Really brave outspoken woman. True feminist

That's a very bot sounding username.

CoalTit · 11/01/2025 23:46

PercyFone · 11/01/2025 21:28

She's been big in alt-right circles for years.

It's a shame you don't read the news much, but I'm glad you're interested now! it's so so important to understand the world we live in! I'm sure MNers would be happy to suggest reputable sources to start.

Your comment is snide, patronising and likely to put people off trying to broaden their knowledge for fear they'll meet attitudes such as yours.