Ayaan hirsi ali…first time I’ve heard of her

I saw that interview and she was absolutely right. Not far right or alt right just right.

I’ve never heard of her either. No idea who she is

For those who dont want to watch the vid here's a summary:
Lied about her name
Lied about fleeing war
Lied about not being present at her 'forced' marriage.
Lied about fleeing family because she would be 'honour' killed
Lies about stats about muslims

"Oh but we LOVE her."😂

So funny how people are so gullible.

She’s brilliant, I love her

Why shouldn’t we talk about Ayaan Hirsi Ali? It’s interesting to see how many people want to shut down any discussion. Why is this black, Somalian (by birth, if not now), ex-Muslim woman not a voice worth listening to? Why are some people suggesting it’s bigoted to even think about what she’s saying?

She's ruffled a lot of white feminists feathers which is why you see some snarky responses to her. I cba with an argument but the same posters were on the original thread where she was mentioned and were also trying to shut down the discussion there.

I think the far right align with her in the same way conservative Christian fundamentalists align with GC feminists. They do it through their racism just like the Christian orgs do it for their homophobia (as opposed to their concern for the more naive victims of trans ideology).

The GC lot and Hirsi Ali seem more concerned with the harms caused by these ideologies as opposed to using it to piggyback/trojan horse like the aforementioned groups for which it's just really a weapon.

I've read some of her stuff. I agree with her on the dangers of importing men from misogynistic cultures without proper integration (see the 1200 sexual assaults on NYE in Germany and the many other similar incidents) and how western feminists are too afraid to challenge it due to the cognitive dissonance of criticising people who are usually seen as victims in the 'matrix of victimhood'.

She claims that western feminists will often effectively prioritise Islam over women's rights for fear of being seen as intolerant and I certainly feel like I've seen that on mumsnet before now - have been a few threads on here in recent weeks.

With other stuff she seems more extreme but I wouldn't really class her as alt right any more than I'd say the Labour government are communists.

I think I first heard of her when her collaborator Theo Van Gogh was murdered in 2004 - they'd made a film criticizing Islam. Horrendous event.

Yes I think that must be what I was remembering from the book, which I read many many years ago. I remember that she embraced the burqa and felt safe and secure wearing it.

I do recall all the hoopla about her lying on her forms ect but honestly it seemed like a smear campaign. One of the issues was the use of her name, I believe they said that she used a false name or something. She didn’t, it is just that not every culture has the same rules with determining what name you use. and when you are born without a birth certificate it’s even more challenging. I believe she was using a grandparent’s family name which in her culture was entirely ok to do but it was jumped on as her being deceitful.

Er a brief response is permitted.

I've already cited why I don't agree with her earlier in the thread.

Of course you can criticise someone for who they associate with.

"I didn't slag her off because of her husband. I've been criticising her because of her views. If she was hanging around with the BNP I'd be criticising that as well."

The post you were responding to as talking about how it is misogynistic to criticise women because of the men they associate with. You disagreed with that.

What views do you disagree with?

Totally agree. I find it really chilling how keen so many people are to simply shut down discussion of things they find even slightly challenging. It's crazy that White left wing middle class women are trying to censor a black ex Muslim refugee from talking about her experiences just because they don't like the people she associates with

I didn't slag her off because of her husband. I've been criticising her because of her views. If she was hanging around with the BNP I'd be criticising that as well.

"because of the men she's associated with, Gert Wilders and her husband, as a few PPs have done, is deeply misogynistic.

What a load of crock. You can't criticise women for any reason whatsoever or you're deeply misogynistic."

Emm no. Criticism of women because of the men they associate with is deeply misogynistic. If you disagree with what she says, argue against it. Don't just slag her off because you don't like her husband

The West isn't at war with Somalia, so I don't how you make the leap from Ayann exposing the appalling of treatment of women with being a 'tool for Western war mongers'.

You might be satiring the Daily Mail in mentioning her reliance on benefits in the Neatherlands, but how else is a refugee to live?

I don't agree that Europe should close it's doors to asylum seekers, personally I think that any woman who can get out of Afghanistan should be given asylum, but I don't dismiss what a writer has to say about their lived experience because I don't agree with all of their views.

Yes I agree. Guilt by association is ridiculous. Think for yourself instead of dismissing ideas because you (a white middle class person) have decided a black Muslim born woman is not worth listening to because of who else agrees with her on certain issues

because of the men she's associated with, Gert Wilders and her husband, as a few PPs have done, is deeply misogynistic.

What a load of crock. You can't criticise women for any reason whatsoever or you're deeply misogynistic. Gert Wilders is far right wants remigration and to create an ethnostate. I'll criticise far right pricks as much as I want and you need to look up what misogyny means.

How was it helpful for you to describe her as the nasty right wing wife of someone you went to college with? You didn't give any insight into why being Mrs. Neil Ferguson made her views especially contemptible.

That’s not quite accurate, IMO. She was raised Muslim, her father in particular I think was very committed, and she idolised him, but he wasn’t around for much of her childhood, was in exile for much of it.

When she was teenager, and attending a Muslim girls’ school, she developed a pash (as we used to call it) on one of the young teachers, who was extremely devout and covered herself a great deal more than was the norm in that place (Kenya, I think) at that time. And Ayaan started following suit, and studying the Koran much more assiduously.

It reminded me a lot of what I’ve heard of happening at Cathollic schools: girls developing strong feelings for one of the younger nuns, becoming more devout, studying the Bible more, wishing to be nuns themselves.

So not in any way a conversion. Rather an example of the phenomenon of girls in a very patriarchal, religious culture going through a teenage phase of intense religiosity, usually linked to a charismatic young woman they look up to.

It would be interesting to know if the PPs dismissing are doing so because they are Muslim and have a different experience of growing up Muslim, or if they disagree with her on principal because they consider her to be anti-multiculturalism and therefor far right?

If it's the latter, and it's coming from white liberals, how do they square their dismissal of her, a black feminist, with liberalism?

I'm a liberal, feminist white woman, and I think dismissing Ayann because of the men she's associated with, Gert Wilders and her husband, as a few PPs have done, is deeply misogynistic. She has given us real testimony of what life is like for millions of women, and the response from those she criticises is to put a target on her head.

No, they’re not. She was to be married off to a Canadian-Somalian her father met at the mosque, who’d come to Somalia to find a wife because the Somali women back in Canada were too westernised and he wanted a more “traditional”, submissive woman, who would “give him six sons”.

Her father had known this man for all of two hours when he offered him his daughter in marriage.

She wanted to claim asylum on that basis, but she wasn’t able to because seeing as arranged/forced marriages are the norm in Somalia, they don’t count as grounds for asylum. So yes, she gamed the system and made up a story of fleeing war (based on her own earlier experiences) in order to escape the fate that otherwise awaited her, of being married to a man she felt absolutely nothing for, who expected her to be a docile brood mare. Who would have expected her to shut her brilliant mind up in a prison of compliant domesticity.

Much like many of the posters on here, apparently.

She was very open about this when she became a public figure in the Netherlands.

Oh, so we can't be helpful if we know someone 🤦‍♀️