To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

The real advantage of private schooling is the availability of such things as music/drama/sport facilities and opportunities; and the ethos of learning as being the norm rather than being uncool.
My now AC went to an assortment if state and private schools according to their needs. They have all done well in their different ways, and they all went to state 6th form.
Buildingd at the private schools were in fact the worst!

@MyPearlCrow vat and charitable status are not related. Schools are not losing their charitable status to pay VAT. By the legal definition of providing a good and not making a profit they are charities. My school does loads with local state schools and provides scholarships and bursaries as far as we can. It's not a wealthy place and operates on v v tight margins. But there are dozens of lengthy threads on that so let's not go there now. The OP was about if it's necessary to go private to get the right education and the simple answer is "sometimes".

Sorry, haven't rtft and am not sure if you're looking at primaries or secondaries. What I've written applies to England only.

There are no restrictions on class sizes after the first two years (R, Y1).

State school classes do tend to be larger than private school ones but all schools will want to fill the rooms they have. The economics of the school sector (any school) are very hard right now. Energy costs and labour costs are sky high.

State schools are often dilapidated unless parents have done extensive fundraising. That was a deliberate govt policy choice when they cancelled Building Schools for the Future in 2010. Now there is a huge backlog maintenance problem.

Private schools are generally very well maintained as prospective parents judge them on that.

Very little difference between teachers in both (I've worked in both). I actually prefer larger classes for A-level (20 ish is my ideal) although marking can be a beast once mocks roll around.

Generally, however, academic standards have improved markedly in the state sector but that's come at a cost of breadth.

It is fair to say that (classical) music, drama, sports, classics, languages are better served in private. You need specialist equipment and teaching to do a lot of that well. Independent schools do share their facilities. But may stop now due to the toxic public discourse following the VAT changes.

But you can pick an area with a good youth music/drama organisation or the type of sport that you want if that's important to you. Still charities doing that stuff well.

I think it depends on the schools and your child.

I was state educated, have a 1st from uni, a lovely group of school friends who I'm still in touch with, have a good career and a good salary. I'm left leaning and really strong believer in state education.

But, my youngest is high flying with ADHD and I can't find a secondary school round here which can meet his needs and is suitable for both children. So, somewhat reluctantly, we're going private.

I agree with the vast majority of what you say @RhaenysRocks but private schools are anything but charitable - it was a bizarre archaic anomaly that had to go.

you are so right on science - and I’m sure the same can be said for many subjects. I see kids with such skill and talent, but that talent is not brought out by the national curriculum.

I agree on parenting too. All sorts of reasons why parenting is so difficult and isolated these days. But it’s not fair to just abandon the kids whose parenting/circumstances aren’t able to produce kids who can slot into school life quite easily - again, even the most selfish should see that the benefit to the rest of the class would be reason enough on its own.

In terms of teachers, my kids in state school have been taught both by teachers who subsequently moved to a local private school or moved from a private school. Paying for private can give you smaller classes, potentially better facilities, but is no guarantee of results.

Larger classes are definitely not better in terms of teaching! Which would you prefer 20 or 30 students to plan for, manage and teach, and mark for?
With thorough teaching and ongoing revision there is no need for extra after school classes. Most private schools have a longer day already.

Some state schools can pick their cohort eg selective + grammar schools.
Some are selective based on postcode + house prices.

All schools are different. Forget the generalities and instead look at your DC. What do they need from a school? Then find a school that matches this.

Main difference between Private and State...
State schools can't pick their pupils and families. Private can. So Private schools have a cohort of families who prioritise education through either resources and/or time. Which over all leads to a more supportive environment.

Thats before you start on the extra resources available in the school.

Its not necessarily an individual teacher being better, or children being smarter etc.. its just removing problems.

Many State schools do amazing jobs. Others do their best, but are fighting a losing battle. Others ate just going through the motions.

@MyPearlCrow I agree but they shouldn't achieve it by attaching and trying to bring down the private sector but by being ambitious and bold in solutions for raising state standards. The tiny amount that may or may not be raised by the VAT is irrelevant. State needs a complete rethink, far smaller schools, or divided up into smaller, more manageable sections so kids are seen and known and heard. Massive investment in SEN, CAMHS, early intervention and acknowledgement that a lot of what goes wrong is happening at home. It's unpopular for a gov to tell people how to raise their kids but the disruption caused in some state schools but the behaviour and lack of respect from even v young kids is the root cause of many problems and won't be solved by just throwing money at schools. A more diverse and relevant curriculum...the science GCSE is appallingly content heavy, technical and unfit for most kids who have no inclination in that area. A qualification exists of applied science which relates much more to real world living but it's not a GCSE so rarely adopted. We need more of that to keep older kids engaged. But all this would mean seismic changes and cross party support because it can't be implemented in one parliament and that will never happen.

I'm afraid you are hoping in vain if you are wanting Labour to improve education. Unions voting on whether or not to strike, they have pretty much abandoned the extra 6500 teachers pledge because they can't even meet the current recruitment target, let alone find an extra 6500, they aren't increasing the per pupil funding formula which is the only proper way of improving schools and in light of current economic situation budget cuts must surely be on the cards. There are rumblings in some teacher groups about the new Education Bill.
Labour have just scraped the Access to Latin programme in state schools, and was just recently announced that they are scrapping computer + language hubs.
This version of Labour is not the 90s Blair version of "Education, Education, Education".

Classes of 30 have been standard for many decades. And around here state schools have newer and less dilapidated buildings, whereas the private schools have better playing fields and sports in general. The standard of teaching is about equal, bullying and competence dealing with it is about equal, and social problems (gangs, knives) are worse at state schools.

I used to think people sent their children to private schools for better teaching and a better education, but I am seeing now that it really isn't about that. I'm not judging either because if I could afford it I would send my son to the school with the good sports provision and fewer knives.

Inequality is always frustrating when it slaps you round the chops.

we chose to state educate. Can afford private but disagree with elitist education. But we’re lucky our local schools are good - hand on heart I’m not sure we’d have made the same decision were they not.

we need more investment in state education, invest more in all kids but especially those who are in some way disadvantaged - educationally, sociology-economically, domestically. It’s an awful stat that a high percentage of prisoners have a low level of literacy/education. Even the most selfish people should see that this would save money in the long run on benefits, nhs costs etc.

I am hoping labour will do more in this respect. It shouldn’t be that only middle class bright kids with interested parents are guaranteed to succeed in state education.

I send DD indy but I'm sorry I don't fully agree with you.
Selective schools, whether state or private, will always get better results than non-selective. There are highly selective state schools + indy schools and there are non-selective state + indy schools. At selective schools I doubt there is much difference in results, where the difference comes is most likely at non-selective because smaller class sizes in indy mean teachers can actually teach, rather than just managing behaviour.

We did. Didn't help when we had one child who hated secondary school.

My DC all state educated and have all excelled academically. Their school wasn’t perfect but it’s an outstanding Ofsted. I rent in this area as I can’t afford to buy on a single salary in Surrey / South London border. In 18 months i’ll return to the north where I grew up and finally become a home owner. I’ve delayed this for many years as the schools are so much better here. There are many good state schools, but if you don’t want to move or have any inconvenience then you’re going to have to suck it up.

How the hell is a parent who works full time supposed to fit all of that in?!

Where I live the secondary schools are dire.
Chances of being beaten up about 50/50 on any given day.

People don't have time to take on the entire education system. It nearly killed me battling the system for one DD. We did all of those things and more and were still made to feel like feckless, terrible parents when we had one child who didn't fit the mould.

YANBU. I used to be such a great supporter of state education but schools now are way too big with huge class sizes and they fail far too many children. I am so glad we are nearly out the other side and not starting again now.

Please DON'T say this. It just sets up a whole new line of "yeah but they only select the best, they play the system etc". It is not a fact that ALL private schools outperform ALL state schools. Not all are selective for a start. There are many excellent reasons to choose private if you can but it isn't a cast iron guarantee of anything at all. It's the right fit for some kids for lots of different reasons. If you look at league tables and take out the privates that are fiercely selective, you'll see a lot of states in there. Many of them are grammars which of course are just as unavailable as private for most in this country bit not all. The biggest factor ultimately is demographic and catchment. In our university town the best results are from the comp near where all the academic staff live. Funny that....

And look at the stats; private education yields better results. That is a fact.

Not everyone can afford it, but for the ones who can and are bashing it- bizarre imo.

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Lots of bashing private schools here, which isn't surprising but does have me 🙄. Taking all emotive response and generic 'facts' out of it ("teachers are happier in state", "I know someone who knows someone who's privately educated child isn't doing as well as their cousins state educated child" etc etc), private schools have:

Smaller classes
Better facilities
More opportunity to explore interests/passions

Parental support, help and gentle encouragement. Read their books. Help with homework. Read ahead. If the school has an attitude if focussing on disruptive children to the detriment of children trying to learn - tackle vigorously. Become a Governor ot PTA member. Encourage after school clubs or uniformed organisation membership.
Do not feel state is second best. Do not stand for poor standards. Do not stand for mealy mouthed excuses.